Cavalry units of the 1st World War

[SteveMarsdin]

Thank you Robert for the clarification,

I'll add another example: the first engagement with the 19e Uhlans by the 14e hussards at 04.30 on 22/08/1914 (details from Grasset)

The squadron Babinet was in the avant-garde as they advanced from Latour to Ethe. The route winds down the hill into the valley of the Ton. Lt Ronin was outfront with six horsemen and a cyclist as they descended the steep hill side.They advanced with great care, in short and rapid bounds. The cyclist was in fact in front of the horsemen (I suppose downhill would be OK !) but he returned to advise that there were Germans nearby but he couldn't identify the size of the force because of the fog. Ronin sent two horsemen to investigate further and they retuirned at the gallop to report that the Uhlans were in Ethe but, again, they couldn't confiirm the size of the force. Ronin sent a rider to the rear to report the findings to the main force and then led the rest of his peleton "at the trot" , sabre in hand, downhill into Ethe.

The road from Latour joins the Ethe-Gomery road at a T-junction and there the peleton had to turn sharp left into Ethe, With Ronin at the head they saw the Uhlans who turned to flee but unfortunately the mount of marechal des logis Boisset in the front row lost its footing on the slippery stones of the Ethe road, bringing down several other horses. In fact their first casualty of the day was the fractured skull suffered by marechal des logis Devaux in this incident. The "charge" was disrupted but hadn't stopped Ronin who was, by now, some way in advance. Ronin continued after the Uhlan patrol, killing one and wounding another with lance and sabre, before returning to his peleton.

[Robert Dunlop]

For anyone who is interested, there are some photos of French carbines here and German carbines here.

Robert

[KennethB]

Robert,

Do you have a link to a British carbine?

Ken

[Robert Dunlop]

Ken, weapon 9 on this page here. Just below it is an example of the dual purpose SMLE, which replaced the cavalry carbine.

Robert

[nigelfe]

The Cav recce role was dying fast in 1914, it quickly proved what some had concluded from pre-war exercises (although a can't put my finger of a reference) - aircraft did it better. Not least because they were faster and could communicate info more quickly (even if it was only by dropping messages).

The number, org and employment of MGs in cav units is also an interesting one, carts seem not to have been a terribly pukka form of transport for cav chaps.

I'm not clear when von Poseck was Cav IG, before, during or after WW1. However, being in the job I'd assume that he was one of the Prussian military elite and not a Bavarian cowherder. When he wrote his book he may have been one of those deeply involved with the Red Army, the extent of which his govt was less than fully aware.

[robins2]

I would also like to know about the amount of squadrons. As I said in a earlier post I have a 1908 photo of my relative in the 10th Hussars in C (HQ) squadron. However, reading the war diary it says there are A, B, C and HQ squadron.

Anyone explain this?

Cheers.

each Sqn. usually had their own HQ unit (clerks)???, some regiments had A,B,C &D Sqns. depending of course on man power available

[robins2]

Hi all,

I've been watching with interest several threads that have been on going in the forum on Cavalry. This has lead to me being even more confused about this topic. Recently I found that my Great Grand Dad (a bit of a surprise, seems the man I thought was my Great Grand Dad was a Step Great Grand Dad) was in the 1/1 Worcestershire Yeomanry. Given the fact that the western front was a meat grinder and that cavalry was of limited use during the deadlock, I never really ever gave the horsemen any attention in my studies. I'm hoping to correct that now. While it would be great if Cavalry had it's own sub-forum, I'm going to toss out some questions. Most likely these will lead to other ones, so please forgive me in advance as sometimes I tend to hyperfocus. Also, should any one else have questions, I would welcome them too. I'm hoping the largest collection of great minds on WW1 can help me understand these soldiers and what they did!

1. Unit organization. How big was a Cavalry regiment. What was it break down, from smallest unit up to full regiment. Hopefully this will include numbers for each of these, and highest ranking officer for each.
2. Brigade Organization. How many regiments to make a brigade, and its leadership.
3. Division Organization. Same as above.
4. Did all of the commonwealth countries organize the same way.
5. Did the British cavalry in Palestine operate the same as the NZ and Australian Light-horsemen or did they act as regular cavalry.
6. MG sections. Where they mounted on horseback (have seen photos) or on trucks.
7. Any info on Horse artillery. Of this I know nothing.
8. Hoping for a list of battles that cavalry actually acted as cavalry. While I know that there would many meeting engagements, I'm hoping for major operations (ie the Somme).
9. A list of charges. I know this is a big one, with many units claiming the honours of the last charge. This can be any country, commonwealth or German.
10. A good source for the colour schemes for the different Gideon's of each unit. In particular I'm hoping for the colours of the 1/1 Worcestershire Yeo.
11. A list of good reading materials. This can be books or websites.

I'll leave off here for now. Thanks again!

Cheers,

Ken

in regards to your question #8 I believe you will find that the LSH led one of the last great Cavalry charges of the war, that being Moreuil Wood where Lt. G.M. Flowerdew was awarded the V.C.1918, a year earlier Lt. F.M Harvey, LSH, was awarded the V.C. for action at Guyencourt, he was dismounted at the time.Strathcona's have a web site, do not have address right now,

regards

Bob R.

[robins2]

attaching LDSH calendar photo WW1 Mounted Trooper

Regards

Bob R.

[robins2]

attached miniature of LDSH Guidon

[Robert Dunlop]

The Cav recce role was dying fast in 1914, it quickly proved what some had concluded from pre-war exercises (although a can't put my finger of a reference) - aircraft did it better. Not least because they were faster and could communicate info more quickly (even if it was only by dropping messages).

There is no doubt that aircraft reconnaissance had a very significant role to play. This was first established in the Balkan Wars. The British confirmed this potential in their annual manoeuvres. I respectfully disagree, however, that aircraft reconnaissance was better. It was different, and added a different dimension. There were flaws and deficiencies. This meant that aircraft and cavalry had complementary recce roles.

I have studied the aerial reconnaissance functions of the BEF, French and German armies. Based on a study of the detailed reports, and on the impacts of these reports on decision-making, there were several major deficiencies. Firstly, there were limited numbers of aircraft in 1914. Therefore, commanders had to choose how best to deploy their air recce assets. This meant that significant information could be missed if aircraft were sent in the wrong direction. Related to this was the time that could be spent in the air. This limited the ability to track the progress of forces, though multiple flights on different days helped. It was difficult, however, to correlate observations about the daily movements of enemy forces, given that individual units could not be discerned on the ground. Even if an air recce mission was appropriately scoped then there was the problem of failure to observe because of weather and terrain conditions. Counter-measures were adopted that limited observation. The studies of aerial recce by the BEF before the war led to the development of anti-recce measures by infantry commanders. Suddenly changing the direction of march, carrying arms in the opposite way, and taking immediate cover were some of the tactics used to fool aerial observers. Finally, the recce information was not precise enough (or sufficiently reliable) to allow infantry or cavalry commanders to make definitive tactical decisions. This is why, for example, British and French cavalry still had a major recce role during the German withdrawal in 1917 and during the mobile phases of the last 100 days on the Western Front. And I have not touched on the Eastern or Middle-Eastern Fronts.

Robert

[Robert Dunlop]

It should be noted that cavalry still perform the same recce role today as their WW1 counter-parts did.

Robert

[Steven Broomfield]

To be fair, cavalry today still fulfill ALL the roles their forebears did. Just not on horses!

(Oh, and they add tone to proceedings, too )

[squirrel]

"Would you mind awfully lending a little tone on the left; the brawling is becoming rather vulgar over there."

[robins2]

Steven,

Thanks very much!

Ken

Ken found the LDSH web site , a short posting from it (www.strathconas.ca)

regards

Bob R.

1914 - 1918

Former CO's Former RSM's Honourary Appts

At the outbreak of hostilities in 1914, the Regiment was mobilized and arrived on 19 August at Valcartier, the concentration area for the Canadian Expeditionary Force (CEF). After being brought up to war establishment strength by the addition of some 300 all ranks, the unit embarked at Quebec on 30 September and arrived in England on 16 October. Training commenced immediately on Salisbury Plain, which was turned into a quagmire by the winter rains that continued unabated for three months. There was no shelter for the horses, and the men lived under canvas, until billets were provided in January. In March 1915 the Regiment joined the rest of the Canadian Cavalry Brigade, which consisted of the Royal Canadian Dragoons, the Strathcona's, 2nd King Edward's Horse and the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery. At this time, there was a need for more infantry in France and the cavalry Regiments volunteered to go into the trenches, leaving their mounts behind.The brigade arrived in France on 4 May and the Strathcona's first came under fire on 22 May when they relieved the 10th Battalion CEF at Festubert. They subsequently fought in the action at Givenchy and were transferred to the line at Messines where they remained in their dismounted role until January 1916.

On 16 February 1916, the Canadian Cavalry Brigade was reconstituted as a mounted force, with the Fort Garry Horse replacing 2nd King Edward's Horse. After training through the winter and spring the Strathcona's were sent to the Somme sector of the front in June. However, trench warfare afforded few opportunities for large scale mounted operations. The Regiment came out of winter quarters in March 1917 and played a conspicuous part in pursuit of the retreating enemy on the Somme front.

It was in the fighting at Saulcourt - Guyencourt on 25 March that Lt. F.M.W. Harvey won the Victoria Cross for rushing a machine gun post and capturing it; he jumped from his saddle, hurdled the triple barbed wire entanglement, shot the gunner, and jumped onto the gun. In late November 1917 the Regiment participated in the battle of Cambrai, where tanks were used in large numbers for the first time. When the Germans counter-attacked, the Strathcona's were again put into the line as infantry. During the last great German offensive, in March 1918, the Regiment fought mounted and dismounted in rear guard actions to relieve the hard pressed infantry. On the 30th the whole Brigade attacked the advancing Germans at Moreuil Wood. It was here that Lt. G.M. Flowerdew, at the head of "C" Squadron, led a charge against an enemy, 300 strong and supported by machine guns. He died later from wounds he received that day and was awarded a posthumous Victoria Cross. Heavy action began for the Regiment during the first week of August at the battle of Amiens, where the co-ordinated efforts of Cavalry and tanks were used to good effect. The next important action came in October, when the whole Brigade was in pursuit of the retreating Germans near Cateau east of Cambrai; it was to be the last before the armistice on 11 November 1918.

[Steven Broomfield]

Browsing through a copy of Ramnuggar Boys (a history of the 14th/20th King's Hussars, 1715-1992) by John Pharo-Tomlin, I came across a desciption of a 'perfect' charge, in 1920, which also lays claim to be the last regimental cavalry charge. It was made by the 20th Hussars against Turks who were art of the force which had, against the peace treaty in force, started trouble in the Black Sea. The Turkish force was entrenched in front of the village of Gebze, and were opposed by a force which included the 20th, the 2/39th Royal Garwhal Rifles and supporting artillery. Pharo

Pharo-Tomiln states that the 20th were on the Turks' right flank, waiting while the Garwhalis attacked. At about 1,000 yards, the 20th prepared to charge: "After the artillery barrage, the 20th advanced, two squadrons forward and one in reserve. Nearly 300 cavalryment pressed on towards the enemy, swords drawn and trumpets sounding. As the artillery barrage lifted the 20th charged the Turkish position, regrouped and galloped back through the position again. Withing the space of 30 minutes the Turks had fled and the last regimental cavalry charge in military history had been a complete success. Although the Nationalists stood their ground, they had many casualties: the only casualty in the 20th was Lieutenant Leslie Groves, who was hit in the knee"

Whether or not is was truly "the last" charge, it would seem this was a text-book charge by cavalry supporting an infantry attack while themselves supported by artillery. How it should be done, I suppose. This was in July 1920.

[Borden Battery]

Here is a speach about the Canadian Cavalry Brigade by Seely. Borden Battery

•The Record of the Canadian Cavalry Brigade - The Rt. Honourable J.E.B. Seely (4 Oct 1920)

"The very thrilling story of the Canadian Cavalry. How this brigade was formed; some actions that it did. The speaker’s command of this brigade. A crisis in the war after a period of training. Canada’s knack for being present at almost every crisis. The wicked act by the Germans of the employment of lethal gas against the promise they had given to the whole civilized world. The terrible losses suffered by the Canadians. Duty in the trenches. Remounting for the battle of the Somme. Useful work done in building and strengthening the front lines and in relieving the infantry. Encircling and capturing the village of Joncourt. The heroism of young Gardiner and of Harvey, who got his Victoria Cross. Outstanding accomplishments of each unit of the brigade. The first battle of Cambrai, when tanks were employed in great numbers for the first time. The surprising success of the tanks. The second battle of Cambrai. Details of more battles and attacks. The climax. Finding themselves in the disorganization of retreat under the command of a French General Dublo. Holding Moreau Ridge near Amiens. A reading of General Foch’s letter, with reference to the “heroism of the valiant Canadian Cavalry Brigade.” “Canada first” in valour and self-sacrifice."

http://speeches.empireclub.org/62167/data?n=12

[KennethB]

Just a add on question. Would someone have a photo of a period cavalry saddle?

I've been reading up on the early part of the war and came across a good description of the packing arrangements for a mounted trooper. Was hoping for a visual to complete the mental image.

As always thanks.

Ken