Guest KevinEndon Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 I know that you have the rank of boy in the navy but was the rank used in the Army, if so did the Scots Guards use that rank Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT-Guards Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 Never come across it in the Guards, that's not to say that it didn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nthornton1979 Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 Kevin, I have the medals and service records of a chap who joined the Dragoon Guards in March 1896. His records show him as age 14 yrs 2 months and his rank on enlistment was 'Boy'. In the December he was appointed 'Bandsman' so he held the rank of 'Boy' for approx 9 months..... Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KevinEndon Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 Many thanks for the replies thus far. Here's why I ask. In searching for the IFTC project I came across this chap Name: DRAKE Initials: T Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Boy Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 3rd Bn. Date of Death: 08/03/1918 Service No: 17089 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: N. 174638. Cemetery: BROMPTON CEMETERY Out of all the names I have searched before I can't recall seeing a soldier with the rank of BOY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nthornton1979 Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 Kevin, I notice he was 3rd Battalion. Was this the reserves ? Also he is buried in London so maybe he died of sickness or accident ? I have never seen a WW1 'Army' medal with the rank of Boy. This is probably due to them not going overseas until they were old enough (and then they would attain the rank of Pte - Which is the rank that would be on the medals) Just thinking out loud really .... Nothing concrete. A rare find though, without a doubt. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT-Guards Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 Kevin, I notice he was 3rd Battalion. Was this the reserves ? Also he is buried in London so maybe he died of sickness or accident ? I have never seen a WW1 'Army' medal with the rank of Boy. This is probably due to them not going overseas until they were old enough (and then they would attain the rank of Pte - Which is the rank that would be on the medals) Just thinking out loud really .... Nothing concrete. A rare find though, without a doubt. Neil 3rd wasn't reserve Btn, only heard of Boy rank prior and including Boer War not WWI, intriguing to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nthornton1979 Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 Found him on Ancestry... He did die at home as suspected. Name:Thomas Drake Birth Place:Woking, Hants Residence:Westminster, London Death Date:8 Mar 1918 Death Location:Home Enlistment Location:Warley, Essex Rank:Boy Regiment:Scots Guards Number:17089 Type of Casualty:Died Theatre of War:Home Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT-Guards Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 Nice find! I see that is slightly muddled as Woking (where I am now), is in Surrey. Resided in London, enlisted in Essex, born in Woking - this boy travelled. Died at home this has all the hallmarks of the SDGW confusion i.e residence, emlistment & birth place all about face. (EDIT) Theatre of war mixed up. (Now pulling book shelf apart looking for more)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 Lads of 14 or over could serve in any regiment as musicians, drummers, tailors, shoemakers, artificers or clerks all ranked as boys. There were strict limitations on how many a regiment could recruit (about 1.5%) as it was thought that this diluted the strength (this was relaxed slightly in 1911). By 1914 there were between 3,000 and 4,000 boys in the British Army the overwhelming majority being musicians. They could serve overseas but not as combatants and the numbers who could do so was further restricted. The rank was abolished in 1958 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT-Guards Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 Thanks Centurion, New the rank existed in earlier wars, rather like the rank of Kings'/ Queens Corporal - heard of it- never seen it! I hold a near complete roll of honour for the 6 Guards Regiments very long ROH to say the least denoting many ranks (Officers, WO's, NCO's & men, including trades (tailors etc), none denote the rank of Boy amongst the thousands listed. Wouldn't mind seeing a service paper with it on! Always learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT-Guards Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 Found him!!! T Drake rank Drummer on the Guards Roll Of Honour! File to large to upload can email a copy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 WO 32/6896 in the NA covers much relevant stuff, 1911-1913. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT-Guards Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 Hope this works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Strawbridge Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 I have never seen a WW1 'Army' medal with the rank of Boy. This is probably due to them not going overseas until they were old enough (and then they would attain the rank of Pte - Which is the rank that would be on the medals) I have a 1914/5 star named to 9550 BOY T.WATSON. L.N.LAN:R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 The term BOY was in use well into the late 1930's. I have a sports medal from the Royal West Kents to a BOY R WHITE for a BOYS Football Tournament. This is dated 1936. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 March 1918 is about right for an early Spanish 'Flu victim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 I have a 1914/5 star named to 9550 BOY T.WATSON. L.N.LAN:R. Will be quite rare - as I noted boys could go overseas provided they did not take a combatant role so some will have gone to France and qualified as having been in a theatre of war but the numbers allowed to go was limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendanLee Posted 5 September , 2010 Share Posted 5 September , 2010 I have found six soldiers with the rank Boy who were killed while serving in Ireland during the war of Independence which began on the 21st of January 1919 and ended with a truce on the 11th of August 1921. I have put a link below to the page which gives a little more information about them. Ages range from 14 to 18 and all were musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 6 September , 2010 Share Posted 6 September , 2010 The term boy was also used as an insult during the late 70's and 80's to those who had joined as 'apprentices' boy soldiers invariably being know it all pain in arrses and lance jacks at 18 or 19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KevinEndon Posted 6 September , 2010 Share Posted 6 September , 2010 This is brilliant. Can anyone do a 1911 census check to see how old he was, Should his rank not be drummer rather than boy. I cant work out a search on Geoffs search engine to see how many other boy's served in the army Kevin ps cheers Dycer for the pm. very interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT-Guards Posted 6 September , 2010 Share Posted 6 September , 2010 This is brilliant. Can anyone do a 1911 census check to see how old he was, Should his rank not be drummer rather than boy. I cant work out a search on Geoffs search engine to see how many other boy's served in the army Kevin ps cheers Dycer for the pm. very interesting I can only speak for the Guards, from what Information I have I cant find any rank of boy, like my ealier post this lad is ranked as a Drummer. Just to reiterate the image I posted is from the Roll Of Honour from the 6 Guards Regiments dated c. February 1919. No rank of boys shown - not to say it didn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pighills Posted 6 September , 2010 Share Posted 6 September , 2010 Hi Kev, I did a birth search, 10 years +/- on 1900 and I can't see anything to fit him: DRAKE, Thomas 1898 13 M Paddington London DRAKE, Thomas 1904 7 M Southwark London DRAKE, Thomas 1908 3 M Wandsworth London DRAKE, Thomas 1902 9 M Camberwell London DRAKE, Thomas 1907 4 M Epsom Surrey DRAKE, Thomas 1902 9 M Dartford Kent Institution DRAKE, Thomas 1891 20 ? Hartley Wintney Hampshire DRAKE, Thomas 1908 3 M Uxbridge Middlesex DRAKE, Thomas 1902 9 M Edmonton Middlesex DRAKE, Thomas 1891 20 M Peterborough Northamptonshire DRAKE, Thomas 1906 5 M West Ham Essex DRAKE, Thomas 1904 7 M West Ham Essex DRAKE, Thomas 1901 10 M Wayland Norfolk DRAKE, Thomas 1898 13 M Plympton St Mary Devonshire DRAKE, Thomas 1907 4 M Tiverton Devonshire DRAKE, Thomas 1898 13 M Bristol Gloucestershire DRAKE, Thomas 1898 13 M Bristol Gloucestershire DRAKE, Thomas 1893 18 M Aston Warwickshire DRAKE, Thomas 1894 17 M Basford Nottinghamshire DRAKE, Thomas 1904 7 M Salford Lancashire DRAKE, Thomas 1906 5 M Prestwich Lancashire DRAKE, Thomas 1908 3 M Rochdale Lancashire DRAKE, Thomas 1902 9 M Skipton Yorkshire (West riding) DRAKE, Thomas 1892 19 M Sedgefield Durham DRAKE, Thomas 1905 6 M Durham Durham DRAKE, Thomas 1902 9 M Gateshead Durham DRAKE, Thomas 1906 5 M Gateshead Durham DRAKE, Thomas 1906 5 M Gateshead Durham DRAKE, Thomas 1905 6 M Cockermouth Cumberland DRAKE, Thomas 1900 11 M Cockermouth Cumberland DRAKE, Thomas 1903 8 M Whitehaven Cumberland DRAKE, Thomas Archie 1897 14 M Nuneaton Warwickshire DRAKE, Thomas Arnold Steel 1907 4 M Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding) DRAKE, Thomas Atkins 1890 21 M West Ham Essex DRAKE, Thomas Christopher 1894 17 M Sturminster Dorsetshire DRAKE, Thomas Edward 1896 15 M New Forest Hampshire DRAKE JUNR, Thomas Francis 1904 7 M Paddington London DRAKE, Thomas George 1904 7 M Willesden Middlesex DRAKE, Thomas George 1905 6 M Lincoln Lincolnshire DRAKE, Thomas Giles 1892 19 M Bramley Yorkshire (West riding) DRAKE, Thomas Henealy 1900 11 M St Germans Cornwall DRAKE, Thomas Henry 1909 2 M Woolwich London DRAKE, Thomas Henry 1898 13 M Lanchester Durham DRAKE, Thomas J 1896 15 M West Ham Essex DRAKE, Thomas John 1904 7 M Portsmouth Hampshire DRAKE, Thomas John 1897 14 M Totnes Devonshire DRAKE, Thomas Tyrwhite 1893 18 M Eton Buckinghamshire DRAKE, Thomas Valentine 1891 20 M Solihull Warwickshire DRAKE, Thomas Victor 1898 13 M Sherborne Dorsetshire DRAKE, Thomas W 1905 6 M Plympton St Mary Devonshire DRAKE, Thomas W 1899 12 M Penistone Yorkshire (West riding) DRAKE, Thomas William 1899 12 M Skipton Yorkshire (West riding) DRAKE, Thomas William 1895 16 M Wakefield Yorkshire (West riding) DRAKE, Thomas William 1891 20 M Doncaster Yorkshire (West riding) DRAKE, Thomas William 1906 5 M Cardiff Glamorganshire DRAKE, Tom 1904 7 M Wandsworth London DRAKE, Tom 1904 7 M Southampton Hampshire DRAKE, Tom 1896 15 M Beaminster Dorsetshire DRAKE, Tom 1897 14 M Prestwich Lancashire DRAKE, Tom 1904 7 M Rochdale Lancashire DRAKE, Tom 1898 13 M Blackburn Lancashire DRAKE, Tom 1899 12 M Bramley Yorkshire (West riding) DRAKE, Tom Francis 1896 15 M Shardlow Derbyshire DRAKE, Tom Womersley 1910 1 M Lancaster Lancashire As a matter of interest, I also came across the rank of 'Boy' last night: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 6 September , 2010 Share Posted 6 September , 2010 Is not Drummer or musician, tailor, clerk, trumpeter, bugler atc. an appointment and not a rank? Boys who had qualified for one of these appointments would be shown as such on the rolls and not as boy. As Centurian says, boys could join at 14 and their man service started on their 18th birthday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT-Guards Posted 6 September , 2010 Share Posted 6 September , 2010 Is not Drummer or musician, tailor, clerk, trumpeter, bugler atc. an appointment and not a rank? Boys who had qualified for one of these appointments would be shown as such on the rolls and not as boy. As Centurian says, boys could join at 14 and their man service started on their 18th birthday. Sound's likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 6 September , 2010 Share Posted 6 September , 2010 If you register on John Duncan's web-site-Newbattle at War-and access the Boy Soldier section. You'll find a copy of the Embodiment Notice dated 4th August 1914 sent to 4585 Boy J.M.Marchbank,8th Royal Scots. The section also includes a recording of him speaking about his experiences during the War, also photographs of him and Newspaper Articles written about his bravery at the Front as a 14 year old. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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