Muerrisch Posted 5 July Share Posted 5 July 2 hours ago, CorporalPunishment said: I would date the photo to early 1919 and before the introduction of the BWM (July 1919) and the VM (September 1919) going by the lack of any ribbons on several of these clearly senior soldiers. Pete. But no overseas chevrons ......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 5 July Share Posted 5 July 2 hours ago, Muerrisch said: But no overseas chevrons ......................... The man second from left in the back row is the only one wearing them. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 5 July Share Posted 5 July 39 minutes ago, CorporalPunishment said: The man second from left in the back row is the only one wearing them. Pete. Good spot. Very much a transtional date. Also a PTI back row I think. [ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 5 July Share Posted 5 July 32 minutes ago, Muerrisch said: Good spot. Very much a transtional date. Also a PTI back row I think. [ Yes, looks like a PTI. The men back row second from right and front row far left are also wearing badges above the rank chevrons but it would need an expert to work them out. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankengine888 Posted 6 July Share Posted 6 July 14 hours ago, RedCoat said: Do you have the DCM and Bar winners name? 6036 John Albert Charles Kepner, born May 11 1885 in Indiana; Died Jan 15 1974 in London. ('Citations of the DCM' misindexed him as 6026 CSM J.S Kepner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 6 July Share Posted 6 July 10 hours ago, CorporalPunishment said: Yes, looks like a PTI. The men back row second from right and front row far left are also wearing badges above the rank chevrons but it would need an expert to work them out. Pete. Crowns I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 6 July Share Posted 6 July (edited) On 06/07/2024 at 09:19, Muerrisch said: Crowns I think. Agreed on right. On left I think it looks like the band badge, and so perhaps the band sergeant. It seems to be on the right sleeve only. Edited 7 July by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 7 July Share Posted 7 July On 06/07/2024 at 09:25, FROGSMILE said: Agreed on right. On left I think it looks like the band badge, and so perhaps the band sergeant. It seems to be on the right sleeve only. Yes, a better bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July Caption. Cable, Shefford-Clophill Road. Haynes Park. August 11th 1917. Officer Cadets laying a cable in Bedfordshire. I suspect the item being held is some form of slug to make an underground conduit for cables. I however am only guessing. Happy to be educated. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Atkins Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July Presumably, they’re training for/being trained by the RE Signal Service, given their occupation and the Bedfordshire location? I’m on my phone and can’t make out much detail - so may well be wrong - but cap badges look RE (or REish, as I squint at my phone screen). That does look like a mole the man on our right is holding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July (edited) 2 hours ago, Raster Scanning said: Caption. Cable, Shefford-Clophill Road. Haynes Park. August 11th 1917. Officer Cadets laying a cable in Bedfordshire. I suspect the item being held is some form of slug to make an underground conduit for cables. I however am only guessing. Happy to be educated. Thanks If RE officer cadets they would be wearing the cap badge of RMA Woolwich. Senior and Junior OTC sometimes wore white bands on caps after 1910. Another possibility might be one of several annual prewar mass manoeuvres that in the febrile political atmosphere of that period practised regular troops and generals across swathes of southern England. Edited 13 July by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July (edited) 35 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: If RE officer cadets they would be wearing the cap badge of RMA Woolwich. Senior and Junior OTC sometimes wore white bands on caps after 1910. Another possibility might be one of several annual prewar mass manoeuvres that in the febrile political atmosphere of that period practised regular troops and generals across swathes of southern England. Mmmm interesting. It comes from a photo album that is entitled "Royal Engineers Signal Service, Officer Training School, Haynes Park. Bedfordshire" All pictures show men in caps with white bands. Early ones with identified men wearing 02 jackets, later ones with same men in officers uniform. I am aware of the practice of wearing hat bands in pre war exercises, I have some pictures of Bedfords doing just that. I also have pictures of The Highland Division on exercises in 1915 wearing hat bands to be identified as 'the enemy'. However these pictures are all dated 1917, this one being dated August 11 1917. I will attach a few more. Royal Engineers Signal Service, Haynes Park, September 2nd 1917, J B Scrivenor on right. John Brooke Scrivenor was born in Horncastle Lincolnshire, in 1871. He died peacefully in his sleep at 68 Chaucer Road Bedford in 1950. Haynes Park Bedfordshire, September 2nd 1917. E E Watson. Haynes Park, September 2nd 1917. All students have signed the back of this group photo. Some research needed. Caption. Permanent Line. Haynes Park, 25th July 1917. Haynes Park. August 27th 1917. Awaiting M.O.s decision re measles. Edited 13 July by Raster Scanning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July 24 minutes ago, Raster Scanning said: John Brooke Scrivenor was born in Horncastle Lincolnshire, in 1871. He died peacefully in his sleep at 68 Chaucer Road Bedford in 1950. 24 minutes ago, Raster Scanning said: All students have signed the back of this group photo. Some research needed. From the bottom right hand column page 11935 Supplement to the London Gazette, 19 November 1917. Image courtesy the London Gazette. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30388/supplement/11935/data.pdf That is the complete list – there is nothing additional on page 11936. 22 names but I don’t think any of the group shots feature that many individuals. Hopefully ties into the names on the back of the picture. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July (edited) On 13/07/2024 at 09:53, Raster Scanning said: Mmmm interesting. It comes from a photo album that is entitled "Royal Engineers Signal Service, Officer Training School, Haynes Park. Bedfordshire" That makes sense and is referring to the young officer schools run by all three technical corps for their officers to attend after completing their commissioning course at Woolwich (RA and AOC having their own equivalents). At Woolwich they learned as cadets how to be Army officers. At Haynes park they were effectively graduates learning their chosen specialisation as signals officers**. In the photos you’ve posted of this latter stage of their professional training they are as you say all wearing officers pattern service dress. I agree that in subject photo that you commenced with it shows the 1902 pattern SD for other ranks. **there were separate courses for officers engaged in e.g. surveying, construction (PQE) and other engineering areas of expertise. Edited 5 August by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July 19 minutes ago, PRC said: From the bottom right hand column page 11935 Supplement to the London Gazette, 19 November 1917. Image courtesy the London Gazette. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30388/supplement/11935/data.pdf That is the complete list – there is nothing additional on page 11936. 22 names but I don’t think any of the group shots feature that many individuals. Hopefully ties into the names on the back of the picture. Cheers, Peter Thanks Peter, very useful. I have a group picture they have signed so can research for other names. One other identified man is EE Watson so it seems that is the Eric Entwistle Watson mentioned here. It seems this group of pictured men are those mentioned here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July On 02/07/2024 at 12:12, WBlackett said: Hi @GWF1967 Do you still have this postcard? Thomas Blackett was my Great Great Uncle. Best wishes, Will Hi Will, I've sent you a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July Machine Gun corps Infantry. The Transport driver has a Good Conduct Chevron, Marksman badge and a Prize Driver's badge (British Army Proficiency Badges - Edwards & Langley - No. 26A). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July 9 hours ago, GWF1967 said: Machine Gun corps Infantry. The Transport driver has a Good Conduct Chevron, Marksman badge and a Prize Driver's badge (British Army Proficiency Badges - Edwards & Langley - No. 26A). That is the best photo of a driving prize badge I have ever seen. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July 51 minutes ago, Muerrisch said: That is the best photo of a driving prize badge I have ever seen. Thank you. You're always welcome to save a copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July T - R.F.A. - Warwickshire. Several Drivers holding whips, Signallers either side, a Boy Bugler and a young lady wearing his cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July (edited) 12 minutes ago, GWF1967 said: T - R.F.A. - Warwickshire. Several Drivers holding whips, Signallers either side, a Boy Bugler and a young lady wearing his cap. The soldier with his hand on the lady’s lower leg is being extremely forward by the standards of the time and is virtually importuning her I think, given the indisputable body language! Edited 13 July by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July 14 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: The soldier with his hand on the lady’s lower leg is being extremely forward by the standards of the time and is virtually importuning her I think, given the indisputable body language! She doesn't seem bothered about where his left hand is either or the passive smoking. Bosom buddies just keeping abreast of things I suppose. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July 38 minutes ago, CorporalPunishment said: She doesn't seem bothered about where his left hand is either or the passive smoking. Bosom buddies just keeping abreast of things I suppose. Pete. Yes she does look rather complicit I agree. Perhaps she’s not a ‘lady’ at all… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July 1 hour ago, GWF1967 said: You're always welcome to save a copy. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 13 July Share Posted 13 July Acting Major Frank Stuart Lloyd, 13th Royal Welsh Fusiliers. Born. Eylon House, Wrexham, 1893. Died on 5/9/1917 at 61st Casualty Clearing Station, due to wounds sustained to his leg and hand during enemy shelling on 4/9/1917 5/9/1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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