Postcards

[tankengine888]

12 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

With two daughters (see post immediately below yours) it seems there’s a good chance there’ll be some surviving family.  I do wonder if one of the daughters emigrated stateside, as the circumstances of your find seem to make that a probability. Perhaps some genealogical sleuthing can indeed trace them.

Daughter Joanna born and died 1916

Daughter Joan Marion King born 1918. Died Ilkley, Yorkshire in 2011. Married one 2Lt Claude Wackett (1908-1982) of the East Lancs Rgt in 1940, had 3 children.
Unsure on what their children did though.

Nothing points towards an American connection.

[FROGSMILE]

58 minutes ago, tankengine888 said:

Unsure on what their children did though.

One of these might well be the US connection.  It was over 100-years ago, and the jacket with photo inside pocket apparently a relatively recent find.

Edited 15 July by FROGSMILE

[TraceyS]

Fascinating… and tragic.  I’m so glad this postcard found me and I found all of you. There’s a reason for everything. 
 

[RaySearching]

Born 7th September 1886

Baptised 17th October  parents as follows

[FROGSMILE]

4 hours ago, RaySearching said:

Born 7th September 1886

Baptised 17th October  parents as follows

My guess is that Gertrinda Johanna didn’t have a British bloodline.

[RaySearching]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

My guess is that Gertrinda Johanna didn’t have a British bloodline.

Whilst born in the UK Gertrinda , Johanna's parents were Gerhardus Roelink (father)

Johanus Josephina Roelink (nee Veerman) (mother)

both born in the Netherlands

1881 census Collinwood Road Walthamstow

census image Ancestry

 

Ray

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, RaySearching said:

Whilst born in the UK Gertrinda , Johanna's parents were Gerhardus Roelink (father)

Johanus Josephina Roelink (nee Veerman) (mother)

both born in the Netherlands

1881 census Collinwood Road Walthamstow

census image Ancestry

 

Ray

Thank you Ray, a peek into the kind of multiculturalism that was more of a feature of 19th century Britain than some realise today.

[6RRF]

Also, while I'm sure that it then had an innocent, and most likely commercial, explanation, Gerhardus Roelink's description as a Foreign Agent sounds rather sinister in the 21st century

[RaySearching]

1st cousins who perished

DARBY PHILP LANCELOT

Private PHILIP LANCELOT DARBY
21021 9th Bn West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own)

Philip was killed in action aged 20 during an attack on Turk Street and The Wonderwork during the Battles of the Somme on the 14th September 1916, his body was never recovered lost to the battlefieldHe was the son of Rebecca Ann White previously Darby (nee Walker) and the late William Herbert DarbyPhilip can be found on the 1901 census aged 4 residing with his parents and siblings at 35 Jameson Street Middlesbrough, On the 1911 census Philip can be found residing with his mother and siblings at 8 Montague Street Middlesbrough his mother a housekeeper for John Cuthbert   (the family described as boarders on the census) He was the nephew of Joseph Darby  who also perishedThe register of soldiers’ effects lists his sisters Annie E and Ivy L as the legatees of his effectsBorn Middlesbrough enlisted London
THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

 

MARRON JOHN

Rifleman JOHN MARRON 
21498 2nd/7th Bn West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own)
John was wounded in action in the  Bullencourt Sector  and died  of his wounds aged 19 on 22nd September 1917  whilst the battalion  were engaged in trench wiring  duties
He was the son Hugh a blast furnace labourer and Hannah Jane Marron  (nee Walker) of 8 Bennett Street Middlesbrough.John can be found on the 1901 census residing with his parents and siblings at 47 Derby Street MiddlesbroughThe register of soldiers’ effects list his mother Hannah as the sole legatee of his effectsThe claimant of a dependant’s pension is listed as Mrs Hannah Jane Marron (mother) age 38 of 8 Bennett Street Middlesbrough
Born and enlisted Middlesbrough
FAVREUIL BRITISH CEMETERY       (Middlesbrough war memorial

source my computer

[FROGSMILE]

47 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

1st cousins who perished

DARBY PHILP LANCELOT

Private PHILIP LANCELOT DARBY
21021 9th Bn West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own)

Philip was killed in action aged 20 during an attack on Turk Street and The Wonderwork during the Battles of the Somme on the 14th September 1916, his body was never recovered lost to the battlefieldHe was the son of Rebecca Ann White previously Darby (nee Walker) and the late William Herbert DarbyPhilip can be found on the 1901 census aged 4 residing with his parents and siblings at 35 Jameson Street Middlesbrough, On the 1911 census Philip can be found residing with his mother and siblings at 8 Montague Street Middlesbrough his mother a housekeeper for John Cuthbert   (the family described as boarders on the census) He was the nephew of Joseph Darby  who also perishedThe register of soldiers’ effects lists his sisters Annie E and Ivy L as the legatees of his effectsBorn Middlesbrough enlisted London
THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

 

MARRON JOHN

Rifleman JOHN MARRON 
21498 2nd/7th Bn West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own)
John was wounded in action in the  Bullencourt Sector  and died  of his wounds aged 19 on 22nd September 1917  whilst the battalion  were engaged in trench wiring  duties
He was the son Hugh a blast furnace labourer and Hannah Jane Marron  (nee Walker) of 8 Bennett Street Middlesbrough.John can be found on the 1901 census residing with his parents and siblings at 47 Derby Street MiddlesbroughThe register of soldiers’ effects list his mother Hannah as the sole legatee of his effectsThe claimant of a dependant’s pension is listed as Mrs Hannah Jane Marron (mother) age 38 of 8 Bennett Street Middlesbrough
Born and enlisted Middlesbrough
FAVREUIL BRITISH CEMETERY       (Middlesbrough war memorial

source my computer

Interesting from a dress perspective to see that both lads are wearing collar badges, although that’s unclear whether with a reserve battalion, or with the units that they were to die with in France.  The former seems more likely to me as I suspect they probably trained together, but were then separated at the base depot.  It’s an example of regiments doing their own thing with some aspects of insignia, regardless of clothing regulations.  It cannot have been easy to supply the badges, as collar badge demands via the supply chain were officially not permitted for the purposes of service dress.  Ergo it’s unclear how they were procured.

Edited 18 July by FROGSMILE

[RaySearching]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

Interesting from a dress perspective to see that both lads are wearing collar badges

I noticed the fact that both are wearing collar badges which I thought was unusual so early in the war

Philip and his cousin John were both pre war Juvenile delinquents not unknown to the Police and the courts  

Philip was sentenced to 2 years Borstal Training on the 13th December 1913 which indicates that the earliest he could have enlisted was Dec 1915, unless he was released early to join the army, nevertheless they both paid there dues fighting for king and country, Philip was only awarded the pair so cannot have entered the theatre of war before Jan 1916

Ray

 

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

30 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

I noticed the fact that both are wearing collar badges which I thought was unusual so early in the war

Philip and his cousin John were both pre war Juvenile delinquents not unknown to the Police and the courts  

Philip was sentenced to 2 years Borstal Training on the 13th December 1913 which indicates that the earliest he could have enlisted was Dec 1915, unless he was released early to join the army, nevertheless they both paid there dues fighting for king and country, Philip was only awarded the pair so cannot have entered the theatre of war before Jan 1916

Ray

Basic training would have sorted them out and probably gave the only properly structured and functional home that they’d ever experienced.

Edited 18 July by FROGSMILE

[poona guard]

The Foreign Agent refers to his working for a company that is not British; he was their agent in this country. Wearing the collar badges by the West Yorks was not uncommon but generally it denoted that they were a musician, perhaps these two could play an instrument?

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, poona guard said:

Wearing the collar badges by the West Yorks was not uncommon but generally it denoted that they were a musician, perhaps these two could play an instrument?

I’m afraid I don’t agree with that.  Clothing regulations for the infantry did not authorise the wearing of collar badges on service dress until the 1920s** and the vast majority of battalions observed that based on photographic evidence that I’ve seen, although without question there were some battalions within regiments that did and some regiments as a whole too.  The Royal Munster Fusiliers being a good example of the latter.  But they were most decidedly the exception rather than the rule.  There’s no evidence whatsoever that it was anything but ‘uncommon’ for collar badges to be worn by the PWO West Yorkshire Regiment.

** this is important because it meant that under materiel regulations units could not demand them via the supply chain.  Two sets of collar badges were issued to each soldier for his tunic and one other undress garment, but not service dress.  It meant that units could only obtain badges via some creative accounting, or by purchasing them privately. 

images in public domain courtesy of ww1photos.org  These are just a representative selection of photos, there are also more in threads within the forum posted over the last two decades that are equally devoid of collar badges.  There is a thread somewhere that attempted to collate a list of those units where collar badges were seen, as an idiosyncratic form of identification, in order to be different. 

 

Edited 18 July by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

Royal Welsh Fusiliers on the beach and in billets. 

[GWF1967]

Royal Welsh Fusiliers Private, photograph by Mirror Studio - Gt. Yarmouth,  and a grizzled Lance Corporal with his family. 

[FROGSMILE]

38 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Royal Welsh Fusiliers Private, photograph by Mirror Studio - Gt. Yarmouth,  and a grizzled Lance Corporal with his family. 

Fantastic photos, thank you for sharing them.  I wonder what the story of the grizzled lance corporal was.  He has no medals as you might expect a time served regular to have, and yet he looks very old to have been conscripted, even though the age limit was extended progressively and reached its highest in 1918 as attrition and the capture of so many during the German Spring  Offensive caused a manpower crisis.  It seems to me likely to be an early photo straddling 1914/15, as he wears the emergency pattern simplified jacket issued during that period as a stopgap, an obsolescent Slade-Wallace pattern leather waist belt, and a 1905 SD cap.  It’s possible he’s a former regular who competed just 3-years as had previously been common for a period.  It’s also noticeable that he’s not yet familiar with puttees given that they are untidily wrapped and fastened.  Previously soldiers on the home establishment had worn leather gaiters instead, and only those who served in India and some other overseas stations were familiar with puttees.

The head and shoulders shot shows a soldier wearing the soft cap indicating a period 1917-18, when that cap was issued.

 

Edited 18 July by FROGSMILE

[RedCoat]

2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Fantastic photos, thank you for sharing them.  I wonder what the story of the grizzled lance corporal was.  He has no medals as you might expect a time served regular to have, and yet he looks very old to have been conscripted, even though the age limit was extended progressively and reached its highest in 1918 as attrition and the capture of so many during the German Spring  Offensive caused a manpower crisis.  It seems to me likely to be an early photo straddling 1914/15, as he wears the emergency pattern simplified jacket issued during that period as a stopgap, an obsolescent Slade-Wallace pattern leather waist belt, and a 1905 SD cap.  

 

Theoretically, he could have done 21 years non operational service around the empire with poor conduct. 

[FROGSMILE]

Just now, RedCoat said:

Theoretically, he could have done 21 years non operational service around the empire with poor conduct. 

Yes I agree, I just meant that that was less likely for a regular.  If he is a veteran then his untidy puttees imply to me a short-service man, but of course we can only engage in conjecture.

[RedCoat]

Agreed, still an interesting picture - he has the face of man who'd suit some ribbons on his chest!

[GWF1967]

20 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

The head and shoulders shot shows a soldier wearing the soft cap indicating a period 1917-18, when that cap was issued.

 

Many thanks. 

 

[GWF1967]

Unidentified Officers of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers.  The first photograph is by William Vile, Newton Abbott.

An Aspidistra stand with a potted Aspidistra for @Muerrisch

Edited 19 July by GWF1967

[GWF1967]

"June 3rd 1916. Yours Sincerely Henry" 

[GWF1967]

"No.52 A  Church Parade . R.W.F.  Photo. Poole"

7th Royal Welsh Fusiliers.  Northampton. 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

"June 3rd 1916. Yours Sincerely Henry" 

Soldier and both officers absolutely immaculate, highly polished badge and buttons, shiny boots and neatly fastened puttees, all in the finest traditions of the regiment.  I wonder if the younger officer came home to his sweetheart/wife in the photo. As ever thank you for sharing.

Edited 19 July by FROGSMILE