Postcards

[aodhdubh]

On 09/08/2024 at 22:10, FROGSMILE said:

The “rapid fire section” was a tactical initiative taught by the School of Musketry intended to compensate for the limited number of battalion machine guns at the time, and passed on to the associated Canadian school** so that there was singing off the same hymn sheet.

** and other Dominions/Unions Schools.  The relationship with Canada’s school was especially strong as it was the closest geographically and because Canada always went to great lengths to send a team to compete in the annual competition at Bisley, frequently performing in the top tier. 

Thank you Frogsmile. I was aware that infantry were trained at the time for long distance collective volley fire meant to have a similar carpeting effect to a machine gun, though not sure if that is the same thing, and - if so - I did not realise that detachments were detailed specifically for the task.

[Andrew Upton]

17 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

Here's another...

 

If that's a reference to the chinstrap of the seated central man he's actually just wearing the one but with the normally overlapped section (like the man standing viewers right left) split apart and the cap badge worn in the gap created.

Edited 13 August by Andrew Upton

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, aodhdubh said:

Thank you Frogsmile. I was aware that infantry were trained at the time for long distance collective volley fire meant to have a similar carpeting effect to a machine gun, though not sure if that is the same thing, and - if so - I did not realise that detachments were detailed specifically for the task.

No the long distance firing using the volley sight on a SMLE is a different thing.  The rapid fire section was associated with what became known as the “mad minute”, an initiative born of a Royal Fusiliers commandant at the School of Musketry (Major Norman McMahon) who was attempting to mitigate the reduced number of machine guns issued to each battalion.  I’m reluctant to say more than that it was a policy to train regular infantrymen to fire (officially) 15-aimed shots per minute.  In recent decades this subject has become something of an obsession with shootists all over the world who never tire of debating it and if you carry out an internet search you will quite literally be deluged with references.  I’ll confine myself to just these three that you can browse at your leisure:

1.https://www.cwgc.org/stories/stories/a-professional-officer/

2.http://onetapheating.blogspot.com/2015/03/the-mad-minute-myth.html?m=1

3.https://eprints.hud.ac.uk/id/eprint/34817/1/Harlow THESIS.pdf

NB.  There are several threads about the “Mad Minute” within the forum.

[aodhdubh]

Just now, FROGSMILE said:

No the long distance firing using the volley sight on a SMLE is a different thing.  The rapid fire section was associated with what became known as the “mad minute”, an initiative born of a Royal Fusiliers commandant at the School of Musketry (Major Norman McMahon) who was attempting to mitigate the reduced number of machine guns issued to each battalion.  I’m reluctant to say more than that it was a policy to train regular infantrymen to fire (officially) 15-aimed shots per minute.  In recent decades this subject has become something of an obsession with shootists all over the world who never tire of debating it and if you carry out an internet search you will quite literally be deluged with references.  I’ll confine myself to just these three that you can browse at your leisure:

1.https://www.cwgc.org/stories/stories/a-professional-officer/

2.http://onetapheating.blogspot.com/2015/03/the-mad-minute-myth.html?m=1

3.https://eprints.hud.ac.uk/id/eprint/34817/1/Harlow THESIS.pdf

NB.  There are several threads about the “Mad Minute” within the forum.

Thanks very much. I'll look at those when I get home.

[Bob Davies]

21 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

The images show quite well how the ends of the straps were fitted to the ancillary items I think Bob.  The equipment could be worn in a variety of ways, each described as an ‘order’ of dress as you might be aware.  Marching Order was the full works.  Then there was Fighting Order (i.e. Field Day Order + plus first line ammunition), Musketry Order (less the small pack and entrenching tool) and Guard Order (ammunition pouches and water canteen only).

Thank you FROGSMILE,

your explanation make total scene to me now.

One forgets that the soldiers had all those items strapped on to their webbing.

All we are viewing is the straps which makes them stand out so much.

Up here for thinking, down here for dancing

Regards,

Bob.

[GWF1967]

6 hours ago, Andrew Upton said:

If that's a reference to the chinstrap of the seated central man he's actually just wearing the one but with the normally overlapped section (like the man standing viewers right) split apart and the cap badge worn in the gap created.

It was. Thanks for the clarification. 

[GWF1967]

Jerusalem.  Mohammedan Women.  

Miss M(argaret) Coy  St Johns Farm  Ely Cambs England.

Oct. 4th 1918. 

 "Dear M, How Would you like to dress always in this kind of garb it does not look inviting  All good wishes".

[GWF1967]

Wounded? Royal Welsh Fusilier with private purchase identity bracelet. 

Photograp by Joseph Bros. Goom Street, next to Messers, Harrison & Co., Broadway. 

Edited 12 August by GWF1967

[FROGSMILE]

13 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

Wounded? Royal Welsh Fusilier with private purchase identity bracelet. 

Photograp by Joseph Bros. Goom Street, next to Messers, Harrison & Co., Broadway. 

No I don’t think he’s wounded, but dressed for walking-out from camp or barrack lines in a hot climate station somewhere.  The white shirts were issued as an alternative to ‘grey-backs’ in some hot weather places.  What is a little more uncommon (and so intriguing) is the neck tie.  For some reason that order of dress was common in all the British African colonies but I’m unsure what the location is in this instance.  Braces were not generally worn with shorts unless a jacket was worn over and so if you look carefully you can just about discern the edge of what we now call a stable belt, but back then were immensely popular private purchase canvas and leather belts (that were lighter and more flexible than all leather) that were often fitted with small pockets in which money, or pocket watches could be secured.  Both shorts and field service cap are made from khaki drill (stout cotton twill), which again is evidence of a hot weather station.  Could it be Malta?  Do we know where Goom Street, Broadway is?

Edited 13 August by FROGSMILE

[Stereoview Paul]

Goom street, off Broadway seems to have been in Madras, India

 

Note now seems to be spelt Goomes Street

Edited 13 August by Stereoview Paul
Source added

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, Stereoview Paul said:

Goom street, off Broadway seems to have been in Madras, India

Thank you Paul, that concludes matters nicely.  The first time I have ever seen a neck-tie worn by a British Other Rank (B.O.R.) in India, so quite significant.  He also wears a wristwatch and has the look to me of a non regular, perhaps from a TF, or Garrison Battalion unit.  It’s puzzling though because I cannot trace any RWF unit in India during the war.  I wonder if he was the servant of a senior officer on the staff in India, or if it’s from prewar (2nd RWF had been in India for the years after the 2nd Boer War, leaving Quetta for Malta in 1914**).  The Madras location is a key clue.

** they had previously been first at Agra and then on operations in Burma.

Edited 13 August by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

10 hours ago, Stereoview Paul said:

Goom street, off Broadway seems to have been in Madras, India

 

Many thanks for digging.

10 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

No I don’t think he’s wounded, but dressed for walking-out from camp or barrack lines in a hot climate station somewhere.  The white shirts were issued as an alternative to ‘grey-backs’ in some hot weather places.  What is a little more uncommon (and so intriguing) is the neck tie.  For some reason that order of dress was common in all the British African colonies but I’m unsure what the location is in this instance.  Braces were not generally worn with shorts unless a jacket was worn over and so if you look carefully you can just about discern the edge of what we now call a stable belt, but back then were immensely popular private purchase canvas and leather belts (that were lighter and more flexible than all leather) that were often fitted with small pockets in which money, or pocket watches could be secured.  Both shorts and field service cap are made from khaki drill (stout cotton twill), which again is evidence of a hot weather station.  Could it be Malta?  Do we know where Goom Street, Broadway is?

Thanks once again. It was the tie that made me think he'd been wounded.

[GWF1967]

Private Thomas Lloyd Davies, B.1879 -  Pembridge, Herefordshire.  

119444. Royal Army Medical Corps.  43rd General Hospital, Salonika.     

 The card was sent to his younger brother,  Pte. Dansey Davies.  3rd. Company, 10th Battalion, King's Shropshire Light Infantry. 

2nd August 1917.    " I am following in your footsteps. I shall be in your country by the time you receive this. Let me know where about you are if you can".

Brother. Tom. 

 

[Muerrisch]

10 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Thank you Paul, that concludes matters nicely.  The first time I have ever seen a neck-tie worn by a British Other Rank (B.O.R.) in India, so quite significant.  He also wears a wristwatch and has the look to me of a non regular, perhaps from a TF, or Garrison Battalion unit.  It’s puzzling though because I cannot trace any RWF unit in India during the war.  I wonder if he was the servant of a senior officer on the staff in India, or if it’s from prewar (2nd RWF had been in India for the years after the 2nd Boer War, leaving Quetta for Malta in 1914**).  The Madras location is a key clue.

** they had previously been first at Agra and then on operations in Burma.

You will recall that Malta was not actually the 2 RWF posting, it was a very brief stopover to coincide with 1 RWF [St Davids Day etc] and to leave a cadre of 2 RWF to stay with 1 RWF.

2 RWF soon returned Home in good time for the war, and the rest is history. 1 RWF then arrived Home to find that all the best reservists and SR had been swept up by their junior battalion. I have often wondered if this slight weakening had some input to the appalling losses at First Ypres, although of course the Generals' incompetence was the prime cause. 

[FROGSMILE]

8 minutes ago, Muerrisch said:

You will recall that Malta was not actually the 2 RWF posting, it was a very brief stopover to coincide with 1 RWF [St Davids Day etc] and to leave a cadre of 2 RWF to stay with 1 RWF.

Yes I was aware of the stop-over, and meeting of the two battalions in Malta in 1914, unique until repeated in the mid 1920s at Gibraltar.  I was trying to probe what possible circumstances could have led to the OR wearing shirt collar and tie and so grasping for ideas.

Edited 13 August by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

Many thanks for digging.

Thanks once again. It was the tie that made me think he'd been wounded.

Yes it was a logical thought, but I’m fairly sure that hospital blue was worn in all theatres and also the tie looks too pale a shade to be bright red.  It’s a mystery to me and I can only assume that he was from the 2nd Battalion, but his overall appearance doesn’t seem right for that and so it’s rather perplexing. 

Edited 13 August by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

"The Bhoys of the column". 

There is a Saddler/Harness Maker, an Artificer and standing left, a Gun Layer, wearing a "G" in wreath, with star above - 2nd Prize Gunner in Battery. 

Badge 21B. - British Army Proficiency Badges. Edwards & Langley. 

[GWF1967]

 

Officers of the "County Battalion.  The Black Watch" 51st Highland Division. (1/6th Perthshire?), and a French Liaison Officer. 

One for @poona guard perhaps?

 

Edited 13 August by GWF1967

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

Private Thomas Lloyd Davies, B.1879 -  Pembridge, Herefordshire.  

119444. Royal Army Medical Corps.  43rd General Hospital, Salonika.     

 The card was sent to his younger brother,  Pte. Dansey Davies.  3rd. Company, 10th Battalion, King's Shropshire Light Infantry. 

2nd August 1917.    " I am following in your footsteps. I shall be in your country by the time you receive this. Let me know where about you are if you can".

Brother. Tom. 

 

An older, anxious looking man, doing his bit.  I wonder if his brother in the infantry survived.  I have an ominous feeling. 

Edited 13 August by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

15 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

 

Officers of the "County Battalion.  The Black Watch" 51st Highland Division. (1/6th Perthshire?), and a French Liaison Officer. 

One for @poona guard perhaps?

 

Is the top part of the “County Battalion” banner cut out of the scene?  The figure on a horse is likely to be a significant emblem that might help to identify the unit.  It looks similar to the mounted knight who features in the badge of the Fife and Forfar Yeomanry.

Edited 13 August by FROGSMILE

[Buffnut453]

1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

"The Bhoys of the column". 

There is a Saddler/Harness Maker, an Artificer and standing left, a Gun Layer, wearing a "G" in wreath, with star above - 2nd Prize Gunner in Battery. 

Badge 21B. - British Army Proficiency Badges. Edwards & Langley. 

Some of them really do look like boys….the one at front right with the pale shirt and the hatless one in the 3rd row directly below the “H” in “BHOYS” just to point out a couple of examples.

[FROGSMILE]

7 hours ago, Buffnut453 said:

Some of them really do look like boys….the one at front right with the pale shirt and the hatless one in the 3rd row directly below the “H” in “BHOYS” just to point out a couple of examples.

They did have some Boy Trumpeters, just as the infantry had Boy Drummers and Boy Buglers (LI and Rifle units).  Also some who declared a false age early in the war (an estimated 250,000 underage in total).

Edited 14 August by FROGSMILE

[58 Div Mule]

9 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

The figure on a horse is likely to be a significant emblem that might help to identify the unit.

I heard somewhere that the mounted ‘knight’ is the Thane of Fife?
 

@ronmarsden May know.

 

58 DM.

[ronmarsden]

7th (Fife) Bn Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) (TF)

Too neat and tidy to be taken in France.

[FROGSMILE]

34 minutes ago, ronmarsden said:

7th (Fife) Bn Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) (TF)

Too neat and tidy to be taken in France.

Thank you Ron, that makes sense, and it’s good to see you posting here again.