Postcards

[TomWW1]

Been a while since I’ve posted here but here’s another unknown postcard I own

[FROGSMILE]

6 minutes ago, TomWW1 said:

Been a while since I’ve posted here but here’s another unknown postcard I own

I think you’ve posted him before as I vaguely recall his appearance.  He’s an ASC soldier dressed for walking-out of barracks.  The belt comes from 1903 bandolier equipment and he wears the emergency pattern simplified jacket that was issued pro tem early in the war.

[TomWW1]

Just now, FROGSMILE said:

I think you’ve posted him before as I vaguely recall his appearance.  He’s an ASC soldier dressed for walking-out of barracks.  The belt comes from 1903 bandolier equipment and he wears the emergency pattern simplified jacket that was issued pro tem early in the war.

Strange, I’ve only recently gotten this postcard from my grandmother so I have never posted it before. Maybe somebody else has?

[FROGSMILE]

2 minutes ago, TomWW1 said:

Strange, I’ve only recently gotten this postcard from my grandmother so I have never posted it before. Maybe somebody else has?

It was just his face that seemed familiar to me for some reason.

[gunnerwalker]

Nothing particularly special about this card but I'm wondering if anyone has this in their collection and can tell me what the erased place name is?

Sent by 826412 Gnr. Walter Lewis Field, 20th D.A.C., Royal Artillery.

[FROGSMILE]

29 minutes ago, gunnerwalker said:

Nothing particularly special about this card but I'm wondering if anyone has this in their collection and can tell me what the erased place name is?

Sent by 826412 Gnr. Walter Lewis Field, 20th D.A.C., Royal Artillery.

It’s the Cathedral Notre-Dame at Amiens, so presumably that is what’s likely to be the bit missing.  Amiens was a principal military and social hub for the British.  That particular sculpture of a Cupid / Cherub is a very iconic piece in France and appears in a variety of places.

image via websearch.

Edited 20 August by FROGSMILE

[gunnerwalker]

58 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

It’s the Cathedral Notre-Dame at Amiens, so presumably that is what’s likely to be the bit missing.  Amiens was a principal military and social hub for the British.  That particular sculpture of a Cupid / Cherub is a very iconic piece in France and appears in a variety of places.

image via websearch.

Many thanks for confirming. I knew someone would know.

[Andrew Upton]

1 hour ago, gunnerwalker said:

Nothing particularly special about this card but I'm wondering if anyone has this in their collection and can tell me what the erased place name is?

Sent by 826412 Gnr. Walter Lewis Field, 20th D.A.C., Royal Artillery.

An unedited version via the web:

https://www.hippostcard.com/listing/postcard-france-amiens-somme-cathedrale-weping-child-angel/28960191

[gunnerwalker]

2 hours ago, Andrew Upton said:

An unedited version via the web:

https://www.hippostcard.com/listing/postcard-france-amiens-somme-cathedrale-weping-child-angel/28960191

Smashing! Thank you Andrew.

[morrisc8]

Tower of London wardens , might be ww1 or prewar.

[FROGSMILE]

19 minutes ago, morrisc8 said:

Tower of London wardens , might be ww1 or prewar.

Super photo!  They seem to be wearing the undress (plain dark blue) uniform that’s not so often seen.

[morrisc8]

Could the medals be boer war?

[TomWW1]

Looking for photos of the 9th Gloucester Regiment as my relation Gilbert Sims Gadney died serving for them

[tankengine888]

37 minutes ago, morrisc8 said:

Could the medals be boer war?

Left fella has Queen Victoria Jubilee Medal(?), Queens Sudan Medal (1899; reversed?), Queens South Africa Medal (3 clasps), Kings South African Medal (2 clasps), Unidentified and probably the Khedive Star

Right fella has Queens South African Medal (4/5 clasps?) and possibly a good conduct medal

Zidane

[MBrockway]

5 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Super photo!  They seem to be wearing the undress (plain dark blue) uniform that’s not so often seen.

There are several versions of this photo circulating, with varying degrees of touching up.

It's a Gale & Polden postcard, number 1367.

This copy recently sold on fleaBay:

Exactly the same image, but this time with the GVR cypher clearly visible as well as the rosette cap badge and the scarlet trimming.

This version however has the 'Private' sign in the background blended out.

A close up of the version Pal morris posted shows faint traces of the detail that's been removed:

 

The George V cypher may have been removed from the image to extend the postcard's sale after his death in 1936?  We've just been through similar cypher change process with the passing of Her Majesty.

Was there also a change to the crown used between George V and George VI?  That might account for the missing cap badges.

Mark

 

Edited 22 August by MBrockway
Added Q re crown. Added G&P detail.

[FROGSMILE]

4 hours ago, MBrockway said:

There are several versions of this photo circulating, with varying degrees of touching up.

It's a Gale & Polden postcard, number 1367.

This copy recently sold on fleaBay:

Exactly the same image, but this time with the GVR cypher clearly visible as well as the rosette cap badge and the scarlet trimming.

This version however has the 'Private' sign in the background blended out.

A close up of the version Pal morris posted shows faint traces of the detail that's been removed:

 

The George V cypher may have been removed from the image to extend the postcard's sale after his death in 1936?  We've just been through similar cypher change process with the passing of Her Majesty.

Was there also a change to the crown used between George V and George VI?  That might account for the missing cap badges.

Mark

 

Ah yes I see now that the photo has been manipulated.

No, there was no change in the crown between Edward VII, George V and George VI, it was a plain unmodified Tudor Crown.  Interestingly Charles III seems to have taken the example of his mother, Queen Elizabeth II, who modified Queen Victoria’s interpretation of the St Edwards Crown, by himself tweaking the Tudor crown slightly to make it unique to him although the difference is quite subtle.  

Edited 22 August by FROGSMILE

[morrisc8]

Thanks for that info on the card.

[TomWW1]

Unknown Soldier of the Ox and Bucks Light Infantary in WW1

If anybody has anything that could help me identify this man I would be very grateful 

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, TomWW1 said:

Unknown Soldier of the Ox and Bucks Light Infantary in WW1

If anybody has anything that could help me identify this man I would be very grateful 

Hello Tom, well done with identifying the cap badge.  You’re obviously genuinely interested in WW1 and have been a member of the forum for a little while now, which is great.  Hopefully you’re learning things as you go along.  With that in mind, how do you think the “identity” of a man, i.e. his name and origin, can be deduced from a photograph such as that which you have posted?

[tankengine888]

4 hours ago, TomWW1 said:

 

Are my glasses deceiving me, or has it been touched up in one form or another?

[Muerrisch]

25 minutes ago, tankengine888 said:

Are my glasses deceiving me, or has it been touched up in one form or another?

no and yes, in that order.

[gunnerwalker]

5849 Cpl. Gerald Sidney Garton. D Company, 2/13th Princess Louise's Kensington Battalion, London Regiment.

Served in France, Salonika and Egypt. Photographed by USA Studios, London.

 

EDIT - Correction. Photo is of Archie Garton, 3/5th London Rifle Brigade. Sent to his younger brother Gerald, mentioned above, while the latter was stationed in Salonika.

Edited 23 August by gunnerwalker

[gunnerwalker]

1294 Pte. Walter William Leigh. 1/1st West Somerset Yeomanry. 

Born in 1896. Lived at Harwoods Farm near Aller, Somerset. Enlisted in September 1914.

Served at Gallipoli - they sailed from Liverpool aboard the Olympic and entered theatre on the 23rd September 1915. Landed at Suvla Bay on the 9th October as a dismounted unit. After the evacuation in December 1915 they moved to Egypt, where in 1917 the unit became the 12th Somerset Light Infantry, and then served in France from May 1918.

[PRC]

On 22/08/2024 at 07:56, morrisc8 said:

Tower of London wardens , might be ww1 or prewar.

The Tower of London Wardens picture features seven individuals.
@morrisc8 had speculated ww1 or pre-war and possible Boer War Medals
@tankengine888 has identified some of the medals on two of the Wardens as relating to the Boer War and Sudan campaign.
@MBrockway and @FROGSMILE has clarified about the Royal Cypher and that it relates to one of the Georges – so presumably post 22nd June 1911 and the coronation of King George V.

There might therefore be a good chance that any of those identified as Yeoman Warders on the 1911 Census of England & Wales, taken on the 2nd April 1911, are present.

Figures for the numbers of Yeoman Warders in the run up to the Great War cite 32, 36 and 37, so a comparatively limited number.

Here’s a sample page from that Census.

Imaged courtesy Genes Reunited.

Duncan Bethune, married, aged 54, born Kings Causeway, Rosshire.
Recorded with him are his wife Mary Ellen, (54, born Gairlock, Rosshire).
The couple have been married 32 years but have no children.
Already a Yeoman Warder on the 1901 Census of England & Wales.
There is a WO97 series record for a Duncan Bethune who was a Sergeant Major in the 1st Battalion Argyll and Highlanders when he was released from the Depot on the 31st October 1896. Duncan had completed 25 years and 30 days service. He was entitled to wear the South African Medal with Clasp 1879, having taken part in the Zululand campaign.
Age and place of birth don’t quite tie up, but his wife was a Mary Ellen, and no children are recorded for the period he was serving.

Charles Henry Parker, married, aged 55, born York.
Recorded with him is his wife Elizabeth, (54, Dressmaker, born Llanymynech, Montgomeryshire).
The couple have been married 22 years but have had no children.
Already a Yeoman Warder on the 1901 Census of England & Wales.
Nearest match in the service records was born York c1852, enlisted at 14, and was unmarried when he was discharged in the 1890’s as a Sergeant.

William Battman, married, aged 60, born Lambeth, London.
Recorded with him is his wife Emeline, (59, born Lambeth, London).
The couple have been married 33 years and the union has produced 10 children, of which 6 were still alive. Still single and living with them are:-
Julia Maud……….aged 26…born Woolwich, Kent…..Solicitors Shorthand Typist
Ellen Laura………aged 22…born Woolwich, Kent…..Insurance Shorthand Typist
Jessie Mary………aged 20… born Woolwich, Kent…..Insurance Shorthand Typist.
Already a Yeoman Warder on the 1891 & 1901 Census of England & Wales.
WO97 series record shows 2105 Regimental Sergeant Major William Battman, Army Service Corps, was retired on the 7th September 1896. William died on duty in his residence at the Tower of London on the 15th October 1918 – death certificate is in the record. His wife was Emmeline and amongst the 10 children listed – four struck through as dead – there was a Julia Maud, Ellen Laura and Jessie Mary .
He took part in the Zululand Campaign and was entitled to wear the related South African Medal 1879.
He was also entitled to wear the Egyptian Medal with clasps for Tel el Kebir, and the Bronze Star.

William Robinson, married, aged 50, born Belfast, Ireland.
Recorded with him is his wife Rosanna Robinson, aged 25, born Thornham Magna, Suffolk.
The couple have been married 2 years and have had 1 child, Cyril, aged 1, born Brixton. It looks like two of William’s children from an earlier marriage are still living with him – daughter Janet, (8. Born Inverness) and son Sidney, (5, born Occold, Suffolk).
A 40 year old Sergeant Major William Robinson, married and born Ireland, was recorded in barracks with the Cameron Highlanders at Inverness on the 1901 Census of Scotland.
There are discharge records for a 1053 Sergeant Major William Robinson who was released from the Cameron Highlanders Depot at Inverness on the 19th September 1902. He had then served for 25 years and 316 days.
He was entitled to wear:-
Egyptian Medal & Clasp for Nile 1884-5.
Khedive Star.
Good Conduct Medal.

George Hardy, married, aged 51, born Liverpool.
Recorded with him is his wife Caroline, (aged 37, born Aldershot).
The couple have been married 11 years and the union has produced 5 children, all then still alive and living with them, along with Carolines’ child from a previous relationship. Children of the couple are:-
Arthur…………..aged 8…born Glasgow.
Jessie……………aged 7...born Glasgow
Alice……………aged 5…born Tower of London
Dudley………….aged 3…born Tower of London
Henry………aged 7 months..born Tower of London
No obvious match for George or Caroline on the 1901 Census of England & Wales or the 1901 Census of Scotland.
2064 Squadron Sergeant Major George Hardy, Royal Scots Greys and Permanent Staff of The “Queens Own” Royal Glasgow Imperial Yeomanry was discharged at Glasgow on the 31st July 1904. His intended place of residence on discharge was The Tower of London.
He was entitled to wear:-
Egyptian Medal 1884-5 with clasps  “Nile” and “Abu Klea”
Medal for Distinguished Conduct in the Field.
Medal for Long Service and Good Conduct.
Queens South Africa Medal with clasps for Wittebergen, Transvaal, Cape Colony and S.Africa 1901.

Thomas Lowrie, married, aged 66, born Dover.
Recorded with him is his wife Mary Ann, (aged 58, born Bengeo, Hertfordshire).
The couple have been married 7 years and have had no children.
Already a Yeoman Warder on the 1901 Census of England & Wales.
On the 1891 Census of England & Wales he was recorded as a Warrant Officer Infantry at The Barracks, Westgate, Habergham Eaves, Burnley.The unit is not identified in the return.
His surviving service record is difficult to make out but I believe he finished as a Sergeant Major with the 2nd Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers, possibly in 1894. He was entitled to wear the Long Service & Good Conduct Medal, and the Afghan War Medal.

William O’Donoghue, married, aged 41, born Preston, Lancashire.
Recorded with him is his wife Grace, (35, born Whitstable, Kent).
The couple have been married 14 years and the union has produced 2 children, both then still alive and living with them.
Gracie……………aged 8……born Dublin
William………….aged 2……born Mill Hill, London.
William and Grace were recorded in married quarters inj Aldgate, London on the 1901 Census of England & Wales. William was a Serjeant Drummer with the 4th Battalion, Middlesex Regiment.
No obvious service records.

A little project for a long winter evening for someone

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, gunnerwalker said:

1294 Pte. Walter William Leigh. 1/1st West Somerset Yeomanry. 

Born in 1896. Lived at Harwoods Farm near Aller, Somerset. Enlisted in September 1914.

Served at Gallipoli - they sailed from Liverpool aboard the Olympic and entered theatre on the 23rd September 1915. Landed at Suvla Bay on the 9th October as a dismounted unit. After the evacuation in December 1915 they moved to Egypt, where in 1917 the unit became the 12th Somerset Light Infantry, and then served in France from May 1918.

In the uniformed photo he is dressed for dismounted duty without spurs and clutching a typical, in-theatre purchased swagger cane rather than a whip for riding.  However, he does not have the bugle and lettering title typical of light infantry and so clearly must be still wearing his Somerset Yeomanry insignia**.  His belt comes from the 1903 bandolier equipment, but pretty much all the mounted, and the dismounted non-regular units were so equipped, including infantry battalions.  His single good conduct badge (GCB) shows he had 2-years service in without blemish and that the photo was taken after 1916, when the TF were at last made eligible for GCB, a step without precedent. 

** most yeomanry converted to infantry pro tem seem to have retained as much as possible of their parent identity, including insignia.

Edited 23 August by FROGSMILE