1st Garrison Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment

[Llamafarmer]

Ive been researching my great grandfathers war records and after a long trawl (with help from this forum) have discovered that he served with D company 1st Garrison Battalion of the Royal Warcwickshire Regiment. He also served with 12th Battalion Royal Worcester Regiment (number then was 9359) His Military History Sheet show him serving at home 17.8.14 to 14.10.15; Medtn Expdy Force 15.10.15 to 15.2.16 and Expdy Force Mesopotamia 16.2.16 to 16.3.19 I also have the following dates listed but cannot make out where they pertain to 14.3.19 to 29.3.19 and 30.3.19 to 27.4.19 I have a copy of a letter he sent to the war office on November 10th 1917 whilst on furlough (leave granted because his mother had died) asking to be 'released from service because of chronic rheumatism caused by hardships endured in the Dardanelles and Mesopotamia'. (The war office told him to get back to Egypt) He says he re-enlisted on 17.8.14 but i cannot find any mention of him prior to this.

Ive tried googling for info. As I understand it the 1st Garrison Battalion RWR was made up of men who were too old/ young/ unfit for normal duties. I was wondering if some kind soul can shed light on what the battalion was up to, what action if any did they see in the Balkans? why did the battalion form in Weymouth when the warwickshires were a midlands unit? where they served during ww1 and what actions if any they were involved in? What would they have been doing at home?

I have a wonderful charge sheet mentioning he was awol for 70 hours whilst at Wareham and he was given 14 days cb (confined to barracks?) and fined 14 days pay. His CO was Lt Col Sir E Clarke who awarded his punishment.

Did they fight at Gallipoli or were they garrison only troops? Any ideas why they stayed on in Palestine after the war?

Loads of questions but im flummoxed, my research seems to throw up more questions than answers

[sotonmate]

LF

My take on this is that 9359 Ernest SMITH fought at Gallipoli with the Worcesters. Your reference to the 12 th Battalion would have been when he was under training as it was a Reserve Bn.He landed there on 28.10.1915 and I would say that he was in a replacement batch for either of the two Battalions already there, the 4th and the 9th.You can probably get this confirmation from the original Medal Rolls at Kew which were prepared at War's end by the Royal Warwicks as he was serving with them as 37263 when preparations for issue of campaign medals began.Somewhere along the way with the Worcesters he may have been wounded or sick and on return to fitness posted to the RWR.

The pair of British War and Victory Medals are listed in WO329/756 page 6491,and the 1914-15 Star in WO329/2628 page 65. Once you know the battalion you can sort out the Battalion War Diary and see what it says.

The 1 Garrison Bn.RWR would have served in Egypt and Palestine from Aug 1915. They have three War Diaries at Kew for different periods of their service:

WO95/4444 (Aug 1915 to Mar 1918) as part of "Delta and Western Force". I would say that they were on Suez Canal and other strategic Guard duties etc.

WO95/4456 (Apr 1918 to Aug 1918) as "Force in Egypt", and ,

WO95/4732 (Sep 1918 to Jun 1919) as "Lines of Communication Palestine".

None of these Diaries are digital so you won't be able to pay for a download.

Sotonmate

[sotonmate]

LF

So I've now found the service record ! Your GGF landed on Gallipoli on 28.10.1915 as a part of replacement troops for the 9th Battalion Worcesters. They had already landed as a unit in June 1915,as part of 39 Brigade of 13 Division. On 15.2.1916 he left for Mespot. On 21.8.1916 he was evacuated to India with illness. On 21.12.1916 he was transferred to the Royal Warwicks. The papers say he was in Mespot till 1919,and then on 14.3.1919 to 29.3.1919 he was in Egypt. There is some missing information on the postings sheet so it looks incomplete and in places confusing.

The one thing you can do is to get a download of the 9 Worcesters War Diary from the National Archives catalogue so that you can get the story for his first few months in a war theatre. It is under WO95/4302. When he went to Mespot the War Diary became WO95/5159 but this si not digital so you will have to visit to read it or see if anyone has a copy here.

In respect of the R Warwicks Garrison Bn you seem to be only looking at two weeks in Egypt in 1919.

I will take another look and see if I can make more sense of the record.

Sotonmate

[Alan Tucker]

There were 38 1st Garrison Bn deaths 1915-1920. All 'died' - occasionally an illness specified; one drowned.

1915 - 7 All buried Khartoum. 1st one 5.9.15

1916 - 13 - 9 Khartoum. 3 Cairo. One Aswan Bandar

1917 - 5 - 4 - Egypt; one at home

1918 - 6 (two post-war) - 4 Egypt; two home

1919 - 6 - one Suez War Cem (11.1.19); rest at home

1920 - 1 - home

Most have a former regiment listed...inc

Gloucs 8

Ox and Bucks 5

Worcs 5

Royal Berks - 3

I have ages for 21 - average age = 38

[Llamafarmer]

thats brilliant sotonmate! so you think he was with the worcesters from the start of the war and then got ill during gallipoli and after getting better in india was transferred to a garrison battalion? When i found the service records i must say i was blown away by the detail, the little things like a letter from my great grandmother asking if he was injured or ill.... i will take a look at the 9th worcesters war diaries.... is it a free download from the national archives?

[Llamafarmer]

just confirmed he was 9th worcesters from a change of address form my ggm sent to the battalion hq, they confirmed his wherabouts as 9th worcesters in october 1916. Sotonmate, where does it say he was sent to convalesce? Cant find it in the records i have????

[sotonmate]

LF

It's 3.50 for the download,but you get all the Brigade's Battalions.

He wasn't moved out of Gallipoli with illness, they had withdrawn from there in early 1916 and he went to India with sickness in Aug 1916,probably from Mespot.

Sotonmate

[Llamafarmer]

A letter that his wife wrote in October 1916 thanking the co for the 'note that was sent' and advising of a change of address, she also asks if Ernest was wounded in action or ill. The reply back says he was then a Corporal with the 9th Battalion the Worcester regiment. Im guessing then this is when he was injured/ wounded and when he was transferred to the 1st Garrison Battalion RWR. d love to know what he suffered from

[sotonmate]

LF

There were many casualties from illness,such as malaria and dysentery. I guess that the supply of clean fresh water in such a hot climate was a never-ending problem.

http://www.1914-1918.net/mespot.htm

Sotonmate

[Popsrekrap]

1st Garrison Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment (Camel Corp)

See thread:-

The Sultan of Sudan's Medal  

Which turned out to be:-

 "Khedive's Sudan Medal, 1910-1922"

 

 

[Guest]

Hi, new to here,

 

looking for any info on 1st Garrison Battalion Royal Warwickshire.

Have photos of them in Egypt / Palestine /Sudan.

In particular Capt Thomas Fitzsimons / 2/Lt  Isaacs

Thanks

 

Joseph Colohan

[Guest]

On 16/09/2020 at 12:05, Joseph Colohan said:

Hi, new to here,

 

looking for any info on 1st Garrison Battalion Royal Warwickshire.

Have photos of them in Egypt / Palestine /Sudan.

In particular Capt Thomas Fitzsimons / 2/Lt  Isaacs

Anyone confirm the cap badge ?

Thanks

 

Joseph Colohan

 

[PRC]

On 16/09/2020 at 11:05, Joseph Colohan said:

looking for any info on 1st Garrison Battalion Royal Warwickshire.

 

Hi Joseph and welcome to the forum. Apologies that the more knowledgeable souls round here haven’t picked up on your request.

 

Our parent site, the Long, Long Trail has only this to say.

 

1st Garrison Battalion

Formed in Weymouth in August 1915 and moved to Egypt.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-warwickshire-regiment/

 

Condensing the information already posted in this thread:-

 

A Garrison Battalion was normally made up of men not deemed fit enough for front-line service, and was usually likely to have a disproportionate number of older men.

 

On 26/09/2010 at 16:27, sotonmate said:

They have three War Diaries at Kew for different periods of their service:

WO95/4444 (Aug 1915 to Mar 1918) as part of "Delta and Western Force". I would say that they were on Suez Canal and other strategic Guard duties etc.

WO95/4456 (Apr 1918 to Aug 1918) as "Force in Egypt", and ,

WO95/4732 (Sep 1918 to Jun 1919) as "Lines of Communication Palestine".

None of these Diaries are digital so you won't be able to pay for a download.

 

Although that was posted in September 2010, the War Diaries for that Theatre of War are still not available online, and even before the National Archive was closed by Covid, I’m not sure you could see the Diaries if you visited. (NB – the NA at Kew has now reopened on a limited basis, but you’d need to check what is available and pre-order).

 

On 26/09/2010 at 17:24, Alan Tucker said:

There were 38 1st Garrison Bn deaths 1915-1920. All 'died' - occasionally an illness specified; one drowned.

1915 - 7 All buried Khartoum. 1st one 5.9.15

1916 - 13 - 9 Khartoum. 3 Cairo. One Aswan Bandar

1917 - 5 - 4 - Egypt; one at home

1918 - 6 (two post-war) - 4 Egypt; two home

1919 - 6 - one Suez War Cem (11.1.19); rest at home

1920 - 1 - home

Most have a former regiment listed...inc

Gloucs 8

Ox and Bucks 5

Worcs 5

Royal Berks - 3

I have ages for 21 - average age = 38

 

 

The November 1918 Monthly Army List records Temporary Captain T. FitzSimmons as serving with the 1st Garrison Battalion, Royal Warwickshire Regiment. His seniority is from the 6th August 1916. He is not shown as attached from any other Battalion of the Regiment, nor is he attached from any other Regiment. There is no officer by the name of Isaacs.

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123098781

 

There are Officer Service records for a Captain Thomas Fitzsimmons  of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment, held by the National Archive under reference WO 339/13422

The dates of the file are catalogued 1914-1920, but also 1940. While that may mean he served again in WW2, all sorts of enquiries relating to his service may have prompted the file to be re-opened.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1067351

Like the Battalion War Diaries, the Officer Service Records can only be seen at the National Archive.

 

As Thomas served in a Theatre of War, (Egypt & Palestine), even if it was not in the frontline, he should at the minimum of qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. The records office for the Royal Warwickshire Regiment back in the UK would normally have raised a Medal Index Card,(MiC), to control the necessary documentation. However as an officer Thomas would have had to apply for his medals. The upside is that MiC’s for officers contain a contact address that was relevant at the time the application was made. The downside is that if the Officer did not apply for his medals, the cards were either not raised or destroyed. I could not find a MiC for Thomas serving with the Royal Warwickshire Regiment.

 

There is however a MiC for a Second Lieutenant M.G. Isaacs, Royal Warwickshire Regiment. But this only covers the issue of a Silver War Badge on the 3rd December 1917.

See the LLT for more on the Silver War Badge – note an Officer had to apply for one.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/records-of-the-silver-war-badge/

The contact address on the card is 92 Lauderdale Mansions, Maida Vale, (London), W.9..

Judging from the transcript on FindMyPast, the Silver War Badge Roll, (the document can be seen on Ancestry), doesn’t include any additional information.

 

May be a co-incidence but the service records for a 2nd Lieutenant Marcel Godfrey Isaacs, Royal Warwickshire Regiment, are held at the National Archive under reference WO 339/23183

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1077098

The records relate to 1914-1917.

 

My next port of call was to check out the Monthly Army List for January 1916. This shows T. Fitzsimmons on a temporary commission as a Lieutenant with seniority from the 12th October 1915. Again there is no trace of an Isaacs with that Battalion.

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/122404688

 

A check of the London Gazette for Marcel on Google opened up a number of avenues of enquiry.

 

As far as the London Gazette itself is concerned, the edition of the 18 December 1914 records on page 10824 that Marcel Godfrey Isaacs was to be a Second Lieutenant (on probation), effective 19th December 1914, in the 4th Battalion, Royal Warwickshire Regiment.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29011/page/10824/data.pdf

 

The Admiralty announced in the edition of the 23 March 1915 that Second Lieutenant Marcel Godfrey Isaacs, 4th Battalion, Royal Warwickshire Regiment, was to be a Temporary Lieutenant, Royal Marines, from the 12 March 1915.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29109/page/2845/data.pdf

The January 1916 Monthly Army List shows M.G. Isaacs as a 2nd Lieutenant (on probation), with seniority from the 19th December 1914 on the strength of the 4th Battalion (Extra Reserve) Royal Warwickshire Regiment. He was then employed by the Admiralty.

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/122404604

 

His father has a small article on Wikipedia which includes the information

He married Lea Constance Perelli, they had two sons, Marcel Godfrey (born 1893) and Dennys Godfrey (born 1896).

Marcel Godfrey Isaacs married Marie Louise Cattier, daughter of prominent Belgian banker and philanthropist Félicien Cattier, who was also his business associate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godfrey_Isaacs

 

Marcel also has an entry on the peerage site, which gives details of his son.

http://www.thepeerage.com/p67964.htm#i679633

 

His coat of arms.

https://open.library.ubc.ca/collections/bookplate/items/1.0215514

 

His son died in Canada aged 10. He is remembered in a headstone at Holy Trinity Churchyard, Lyne, Runnymede, Surrey. The same source has more on the family in the post-war years.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/192439781/richard-marcel_lancelot-isaacs

 

 On the January 1917 Monthly Army List Second Lieutenant M.G. Isaacs is still shown on the strength of the 4th Battalion.

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103212325

There is no officer called Isaacs recorded serving with the 1st Garrison Battalion.

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103212397

 

There is no Isaacs with the 1st Garrison Battalion in the June 1917 Monthly Army List.

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/105428350

M G. Isaacs remains with the 4th Battalion.

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/105428290

 

Using the sources here it would be possible to go through month by month.

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/88735803

However I suspect M.G. Isaacs remained with the 4th Battalion in the UK, and this explains the absence of a Medal Index Card for his Service Medals.

 

Hope some of that helps,

 

Peter

[Hawkeye28]

1st Garrison Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment.

I have ancestor that spent almost of his WWI career with the Suffolk Regiment and was in Palestine until August 1918 when he was transferred to the1st Garrison Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment in Egypt, which appears to have been an Administration battalion for the Expeditionary Force.

He then spends the rest of his army career with the Warwickshire's being posted to Warwick where he was eventually demobbed after the war, and married a local girl.

Question: which battalion of the Warwickshire's   was stationed there 1919 thru 1921??

 

 

 

[PRC]

20 hours ago, Hawkeye28 said:

Question: which battalion of the Warwickshire's   was stationed there 1919 thru 1921??

Sorry @Hawkeye28 being a bit slow of comprehending - why do you think he served in Egypt with any other Royal Warwickshire Regiment unit apart from the 1st Garrison Battalion? And why do you think he was still out in Egypt until 1921? Or are you asking which units might have been stationed at the Regimental Depot at Warwick during that period? Perhaps a name and service number might help us with winkling out a few more details.

Cheers,
Peter

[Phil Ward]

I think my wife's great uncle Arthur Frank Wilson 13693 was in this unit until he was discharged in 1919 - does anyone have any ideas where it served other than a general 'Egypt' and possibly 'Palestine' and 'Sudan' ?
Any pointers would be extremely helpful.
Thanks.

[charlie962]

9 hours ago, Phil Ward said:

I think my wife's great uncle Arthur Frank Wilson 13693 was in this unit until he was discharged in 1919 - does anyone have any ideas where it served other than a general 'Egypt' and possibly 'Palestine' and 'Sudan' ?
Any pointers would be extremely helpful.
Thanks.

Welcome to the forum. The last couple of replies to other enquiries on this thread never seem to be acknowledged. Hopefully you will stick with us?

You are aware, I presume, that he has a surviving service record? 

I see that it includes a brief disciplinary report November 1916 where he was admonished for not handing in his kit when proceeding on escort duty to Cairo. The offence took place at Khartoum. So you have a snapshot of a moment of Garrison Battalion duties!  

As has been pointed out earlier, Garrison Bns were administrative centers for soldiers employed over a wide area and in a wide variety of duties away from the front. Guard, clerical, store, labour....

Charlie

Edited 6 March , 2023 by charlie962

[charlie962]

Wilson 13693.

Another document in his file shows a test 3/7/18 at the Army Ordnance Depot, Alexandria (exact workshop name obliterated?) And passed as a skilled ?? Fitter. (Edit, I see he was a Coach Trimmer when he enlisted)

Another hint of the variety of duties? 

It is very difficult to generalise from one soldier's record in a Garrison Battalion due to the admin nature of such Bns. You have to glean these little bits from scraps when you are fortunate enough to find a service record that has survived.

Edited 6 March , 2023 by charlie962

[charlie962]

Wilson 13693.

Just recapping from the Service record. He originally attested to the R Field Artillery but only served in England with them. He was transferred via 3rd Gloucestershires to the 1st Garrison Bn Warwicks on 10/8/15 and he is shown as being in Egypt (incl voyage I think) from 20/8/15. This date did not entitle him to the 14/15 Star as he was not in an 'active' theatre. He seems to have come under the Egyptian Expeditionary Force only from December 1916.

He left for England on 21/5/19. 

Edit . That transfer date 10/8/15 suggests he was in the initial formation of the battalion and went with them when they sailed for Egypt.

Edited 6 March , 2023 by charlie962

[Phil Ward]

Thanks.
All of this is very helpful.
I haven't been able to find his Service Record.
I am subscribing to forces-war-records.co.uk but have only found two entries which haven't given me much new information so assumed the record had been lost/destroyed.
If you could point me in the right direction I would be extremely grateful.
 

[charlie962]

Several bits for him, Wilson 13693, on Findmypast 

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/results?sourcecategory=armed forces %26 conflict&lastname=wilson&soldiernumber=*13693&sourcecountry=great britain&firstname=arthur frank&firstname_variants=true&sid=999

I'll look on Ancestry.... 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1219/images/31240_209577-00014?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=1e23fd25edc95498d419cc538d9cd9f0&pId=1472517

Edited 6 March , 2023 by charlie962
Update

[Phil Ward]

Thanks for all this Charlie - really helpful.
One final question please - how / where can I view the Service Record ?
Cheers.

[charlie962]

I've given you the links to the pay sites. If you are in UK then try local library. They usually have a sub to one or other and let you use their screens onsite. Otherwise a free trial 2 weeks or occasional free access weekends eg 11th Nov. 

(Forum rules prevent us from copying paysite info to you, other than short extracts. You need all the pages really)

Edited 6 March , 2023 by charlie962

[Phil Ward]

Apologies Charlie - I didn't intend to put you in an awkward position.
I have taken a free 3 day trial for Find My Past and found the Service Record there.
I am very grateful for your time and help - it's much appreciated.

[charlie962]

45 minutes ago, Phil Ward said:

Apologies Charlie - I didn't intend to put you in an awkward position.
I have taken a free 3 day trial for Find My Past and found the Service Record there.
I am very grateful for your time and help - it's much appreciated.

Not a problem.

Did you use the link I provided because there are two or three useful records, even the one that in error says Kent? 

Findmypast also has better scans of these documents than Ancestry. 

If you find out any more about life in the Garrison Bn Warwicks do please add it to this thread to help others.