Andy_D Posted 26 June , 2004 Share Posted 26 June , 2004 Hello, I was wondering if anyone could tell me more about the Mercantile Fleet Auxillary please? I know that the Mercantile Marine was made up of civilians,but was the MFA the same? Any help at all would be appreciated!! Kind regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Northumberland Posted 27 June , 2004 Share Posted 27 June , 2004 This might help: A circular letter sent to all parties involved started in motion what was eventually to become the Royal Fleet Auxiliary in 1905. CIRCULAR LETTER No. 9. 3487 T 1905 ADMIRALTY S.W. 3rd August 1905 My Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty have decided that the title “H.M.S.” shall in future be strictly confined to commissioned ships flying the white ensign and shall never be applied to fleet auxiliaries which are manned with mercantile crews, whether they are owned by the Admiralty or taken up on Transport charter. My Lords are pleased therefore to direct that auxiliaries which belong to the Admiralty shall in future be styled “Royal Fleet Auxiliaries,” and that those which are taken up on Transport charter shall be styled “Mercantile Fleet Auxiliaries.” The special character of any of these ships should be denoted after the name, and whenever brevity is desired the initials “R.F.A.” or “M.F.A.” for the two classes respectively should be used. Thus the “Maine” should be styled R.F.A. “Maine,” Hospital Ship, and the “Sirdar,” M.F.A. “Sirdar,” Collier Transport. By Command of their Lordships Ewan MacGregor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDick Posted 27 June , 2004 Share Posted 27 June , 2004 Ewan MacGregor??? Saw him in 'Trainspotting' - was this whilst he was doing clerical work as a jobbing actor? Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_D Posted 27 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 27 June , 2004 Thanks for that Northumberland,much appreciated!! So,from what I can gather from that,MFA were civilian ships, crewed by civilians and seconded to the navy. So if that's correct,the 1914-15 star I just bought fits in nicely with my collection of medals to civilians!! Kind regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 27 June , 2004 Share Posted 27 June , 2004 Andy, Fleet auxilliary casualties (as a result of enemy action. In other words, Flu did not count) who died between August 1914 and the armistice, were entitled to a memorial plaque. But the next of kin had to apply for it, unlike military (NCO) casualties. The FA had a different scroll which did not name the rank/title/trade of the deceased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Underwood Posted 27 June , 2004 Share Posted 27 June , 2004 So,from what I can gather from that,MFA were civilian ships, crewed by civilians and seconded to the navy. Andy That's certainly the case for MFA ships, but men whose medals are stamped with MFA could've well have served on armed HMS vessels. To use an example, My Grandfather's medals are stamped MFA and he served on the HMS Otranto, an ex-Orient Line ocean liner converted to an 'Armed Merchant Cruiser'. This particular ship was crewed with a mixture of Royal navy regulars, RNVR men, Royal Marine Light infantry and the original Merchant mariners who crewed her. These merchant men are referred to in the casualty lists of when the ship went down as 'Specially Entered Mercantile Ratings'. There were in fact quite a number of armed civilian ships that sailed with RN squadrons and took part in important actions with enemy vessels. These ships, like the Otranto may have been SS or RMS before the war but flew the White Ensign and were HMS during there service. So if that's correct,the 1914-15 star I just bought fits in nicely with my collection of medals to civilians!! I'd be interested to know whether all MFA ratings received a combination of the 'Pip, Speak and Wilfred' or whether they were given solely to the men who served on armed 'HMS' ships, with the others being only eligible for the BWM/Mercantile Marine medal. Anybody have a definitve answer? Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_D Posted 27 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 27 June , 2004 Ian, Thanks for that! The guy whose 14-15 star I have,was also entitled to the BWM and Mercantile Marine medal,so therefore i'm presuming that he was a civilian.(hope so anyway!!) Kind regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Underwood Posted 27 June , 2004 Share Posted 27 June , 2004 The guy whose 14-15 star I have,was also entitled to the BWM and Mercantile Marine medal. mmmm...interesting combination. I thought that if he was entitled to the star, that would automatically entitle him to the Victory Medal over the Mercantle medal. What's his rank on the Star? Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_D Posted 27 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 27 June , 2004 Hi Ian, His rank is given as Fireman. Kind regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinH Posted 27 June , 2004 Share Posted 27 June , 2004 I have a group of four medals which are named as follows: 1914-15 Star - G. ALLEN A.B. M.F.A. British War Medal - 2 OFFR. G. H. ALLEN M.F.A. Victory Medal - 2 OFFR. G. H. ALLEN M.F.A. Mercantile Marine Medal - GEORGE H. ALLEN The medal rolls for the first three are listed under Merchantile Marine in the Admiralty records at the National Archives. I've never quite worked out the difference the M.F.A. and the M.M., if indeed there was one. Regards Gavin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDick Posted 27 June , 2004 Share Posted 27 June , 2004 I think MFA men received same awards as RN ratings - i.e. trio or pair - rather than BWM and MMWM as per 'proper' civilians in the MN. I think the difference was that the MFA were under direct control of the Navy - like the civilian members of RFA ships who operate in essentially Navy vessels and under Navy control in surface groups with warships. Most if not all of the MFA groups I've seen follow this pattern. I think an MMWM may accompany a trio or pair if they served at some point in the Merchant Navy or in a bona fide merchant vessel not under naval command and thus additionally qualified for this award. There are a few army groups with the MMWM since the recipients served first in the MN when either too young for the Army, or otherwise latterly served in the MN when too old for the Army or the Navy. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_D Posted 27 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 27 June , 2004 Thanks to everyone for their replies,much appreciated! Here are scans of the documentation that came with the medal. Firstly,a letter from the Admiralty from 1926.to Mr J. Langton.(His Father?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 27 June , 2004 Share Posted 27 June , 2004 The following extracts may help. (Battles and Medals - Gordon) Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_D Posted 27 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 27 June , 2004 Secondly,the authority to wear the BWM and Mercantile Marine Medal from the Board of Trade. Note how he only received the ribbons in 1919,it seems that the medals were never claimed,by him at least. From what the dealer told me,it would seem that he died after leaving the service(no trace of him on the CWGC site),and that his next of kin claimed the medals. If anyone else has any theories,I'd be glad to hear!! Kind regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 27 June , 2004 Share Posted 27 June , 2004 And the last bit:- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantaylor2004@hotmail.com Posted 13 September , 2012 Share Posted 13 September , 2012 Hi there, I have a set of WW1 medals to : J A Kilsby D H MFA I am unable to find any records of him anywhere can you help and put me on the correct track I know that the letters stand for Deck Hand Mercantile Fleet Auxiliary but that`s all I have. I would be grateful for anything. Cheers, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conalliain Posted 15 April , 2014 Share Posted 15 April , 2014 I have just purchased a War Medal for J Dooley FMN MFA. I'm trying to track down any information regarding this chap. I'm hoping he was James Dooley from St Johns in Newfoundland. Any help with this would be great.......I'm stuck in a rut at the moment with my research. .......any advice would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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