Mark Hone Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 I am contemplating the monumental task of transferring the obituary details and photographs of First World War soldiers from the Bury Times newspaper, combining them with details from SDGW, CWGC and other sources and compiling a searchable database. The donkey work will begin in September with a group of (hopefully) enthusiastic boys helping to compile the records. My IT adviser has suggested Access and the format for each entry seems OK. Does anyone else have experience of a similar project and identify pitfalls, shortcuts etc? The database will run to several thousand records eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 Hello Mark I am in the process of doing something similar with a Roll of Honour for the KOYLI. Access is OK as a stand alone desktop database but other than that it can be a bit "skitterish". I am using a MySQL database (the same as the one that runs this forum I think) but am using Access as the front end method of input by taking advantage of its simple forms design utility. It sounds complicated but your IT people should know what to do, its just a case of setting up an ODBC connection and importing the tables. The advantage of using MySQL in this way is that it can deal with many more records than access ,is far more stable when networked and is free to use. If you require a walk through of the procedure email me off forum and I will send instructions, it really is a piece of cake. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 This forum does indeed run on mySQL, which is now pretty well the database norm for web development at anything less than the mega-corporate level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 Mark, I am relatively non-technical and I use Access. I made that decision solely on the fact that I wanted to compile a database and I had MS Office on my PC. I have now been inputting data for a few years and, whilst I have probably done a lot of things wrong (like having tables with the same men in which aren't linked in any way) I find it easy to input data and easy to sort and extract it. I have up to 70 fields in a table and add more as required. My main regret is not learning how to properly use databases before I started to construct mine because I don't think I can correct the things I didn't get right from the start. But, it does what I need it to do, even if it isn't the most efficient way of doing it. Regards, Ken p.s. I hope the CD arrived in one piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 Mark The final decision can only be made by knowing exactly what you're trying to achieve with the database. If it is simply a data repository with little functionality, other than providing simple search and reports, and it will just sit on your desktop or maybe a small network with minimum concurrent users, then Access if fine. If you want anything more than that, then I would agree with Andy and Chris that mySQL would probably be the best. SN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 Can someone explain what mySQL will do in practical terms, that access won't? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pigott Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 ... If it is simply a data repository with little functionality, other than providing simple search and reports, and it will just sit on your desktop or maybe a small network with minimum concurrent users, then Access if fine. .... Access has enough functionality to meet all but very demanding functional requirements and can meet most simpler ones without programming. It may well not be up to demanding performance requirements, e.g. very large volumes or serious network situations, but can still be used as a front end as was mentioned earlier. My approach as an IT project manager has always been to use the simplest technology that will do the job - programmers and designers will always try to persuade you to use clever schemes which will allegedly make it faster/smaller/prettier but with higher risk- just say no. The most important thing, in my opinion, is to make sure the data model is correct before you start implementing a database. That is, getting the nature of the underlying information completely sorted out, including the rules about and relationships between data, etc. I've seen too many projects where developers have dived into database design before getting the data model straight. It usually ends in serious trouble in anything other than very simple applications. Good luck. Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 Access has enough functionality to meet all but very demanding functional requirements and can meet most simpler ones without programming. Hello Anthony I agree with most of what you say, especially regarding data modeling and Db design. Access does have all the functionality that you may require without the need to programme , unfortunately what it does not have is any sort of durability in a network situation. If you have several people trying to input data to the database at the same time you are likely to have real problems. The cost can also be prohibitive at £180 a throw. I do take exception to your insinuation that programmers/developers risk projects by trying "to persuade you to use clever schemes which will allegedly make it faster/smaller/prettier but with higher risk- just say no.". I have 20 years experience in developing on various systems and can honestly say that my mantra is always KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. The biggest problems that I have encountered in my career are project managers with absolutely no technical grasp and no practical experience of a programming environment Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pigott Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 I agree with most of what you say, especially regarding data modeling and Db design. Access does have all the functionality that you may require without the need to programme , unfortunately what it does not have is any sort of durability in a network situation. If you have several people trying to input data to the database at the same time you are likely to have real problems. The cost can also be prohibitive at £180 a throw. I do take exception to your insinuation that programmers/developers risk projects by trying "to persuade you to use clever schemes which will allegedly make it faster/smaller/prettier but with higher risk- just say no.". I have 20 years experience in developing on various systems and can honestly say that my mantra is always KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. The biggest problems that I have encountered in my career are project managers with absolutely no technical grasp and no practical experience of a programming environment Andy Ha! I think I should have said "there will always be (some) programmers and designers who...". I didn't mean to impugn the whole profession. I know you're also right about some non-technical project managers - don't forget project managers have project managers too. I think we're on the same side. Regards Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 I think we're on the same side. No doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 29 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 29 June , 2004 Thanks for all the assistance. I'm all in favour of the 'Keep It Simple Stupid' philosophy so will probably use MySQL with Access front end (see, I'm learning the lingo). One other thing-I am photographing the newspaper digitally with a 5/6 million pixel camera. Will most Optical Character Readers cope with this? I've never really used OCR software before, but if it can render the captions more or less it will save a hell of a lot of typing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Maier Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 I use Access and it is fine unless one wants to work with very large databases. Nevertheless, I felt I should get up to speed on MySQL and downloaded a copy a couple of months ago. I use Windows PCs a lot – but I don’t know Unix – and I thought it would be a doddle to figure out MySQL. Not so. I have found it baffling. It seemed that one was expected to enter command line instructions in a DOS window. That is a retrograde step and I did not fancy it at all. I looked around for Windows front ends and found a few. For a start, I downloaded MySQL Control Center a couple of days ago. It looks nice but is scarcely less baffling. I can’t seem to get into MySQL at all, even with the aid of a couple of books. I have never been floored by a piece of software before. Either MySQL is tricky for non-Unix types, or I am going downhill even faster than I thought. I don’t want to be beaten by a database so I will welcome advice and guidance from MySQL users. How do I get going with this thing? Once I am started and on the inside, I feel sure I can begin to pick things up in the usual way. Does anyone offer a complete Windows package of MySQL, with a decent front end and straightforward installation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 Hello Clive Dependant on what OS you are using you should have been given the option at the point of installation of whether you wanted the Db to be started as a service . This is the best option as it means you do not have to mess around on the command line. MySQL Control Center is fine for the job but just needs a bit of practice. It has been designed specifically to make those who work with Microsoft SQL Server feel comfortable with using MySQL and as such has a very microsoft feel and functionality. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 I'd only go for mySQL if you were planning to place the db on a server and access it from the web. MS Access is fine for a simple desktop application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 As a front end 'control centre' for playing about with mySQL, I'd go for phpMyAdmin. Again it's open source, free to download. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 I'd go for phpMyAdmin. But can be a bit of a mare to configure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Maier Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 Max/Andy, Chris, Thanks for the help. It was the web aspect that interested me. I think I might install the software again and look out for the ‘service’ option. Not exactly intuitive though, is it? It is this obscurantism, at least to a Windows mind, that I am finding difficult. I will have a look at phpMyAdmin too. It is recommended in MySQL: Visual Quickstart Guide, Larry Ullman, Peachpit Press, 2003, 0-321-12731-5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 It is this obscurantism, at least to a Windows mind, that I am finding difficult. Hello Clive Just go to control panel/services and look for MySQL, set to automatic and bobs your fannies aunt, or something like that. You are quite right when you highlight some of the quirks/features of open source software. In many cases it is developed deliberately specifically without windows centric people in mind. It gives them a feeling of elitism IMHO. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 Hello Clive Just a thought, and seeing as you are looking at the web aspects of MySQL maybe it would be better if you installed something called phptriad instead. It bundles MySQL, PHPadmin and Apache in one go. Maybe worth a try. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Maier Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 Andy, Thanks again. phpTriad seems to be called Sokkit now. I will have to brace myself to give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 29 June , 2004 Share Posted 29 June , 2004 Happy configuring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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