WW1 jerrycan

[achiet]

Does anyone know what colour a 1916 jerrycan would have been?

(i mean the containers storing oil for use with the flame thrower on the Somme)

Thanks - Dawn

[centurion]

Does anyone know what colour a 1916 jerrycan would have been?

(i mean the containers storing oil for use with the flame thrower on the Somme)

Thanks - Dawn

The Jerrycan is a WW2 invention. Britain used petrol cans nicknamed flimsys (which says a lot). These were still being used in WW2 when they were finally replaced with copies of a German design (hence the name). They had a tendency to leak. My late father had a WW1 flimsy and this was painted a sort of greeny brown. However whether these would have been used to store flame-thrower fuel is a moot point.

[achiet]

The Jerrycan is a WW2 invention. Britain used petrol cans nicknamed flimsys (which says a lot). These were still being used in WW2 when they were finally replaced with copies of a German design (hence the name). They had a tendency to leak. My late father had a WW1 flimsy and this was painted a sort of greeny brown. However whether these would have been used to store flame-thrower fuel is a moot point.

Thanks for the reply. I was trying to answer a question asked by someone at the Thiepval Visitor Centre (where i work). He is working on a picture with the flame thrower. With an internet search i was mainly coming up with the WW2 stuff...

I did get olive green from Teddy at the Ulster Tower and he usually knows what he's talking about!!! Dawn

[centurion]

WW1 flimsies

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh97/Eugene1942/Petrolcans002.jpg

The one in the middle looks like the one my father had

The vintage vehicle people say that the petrol cans originally arrived in the suppliers commercial colours but could be repainted later. Cans used with Vickers machine guns to hold water were painted a browny green (a bit like WW2 olive drab) so they didn't show up and I guess that other cans would eventually be repainted in the same way. However there was a different design used to hold oil as opposed to petrol so what the flame throwers might have been equipped with probably needs a bit more research.

[Old Tom]

Is the flame thrower referred to the Livens projector which, I understand, was first used on the Somme in 1916. I do not know much about thse but have read that the first gas containers to be fired from the projector were those used by ASC for lubricating oil and would guess these would be a trade pack in the manufacturers colours. Also, I suppose these were cylindrical cans while flimsies were rectangular.

Old Tom

[achiet]

Thanks for both answers and yes i was refering to the Livens flame thrower. I'll get my french friend to read through this thread now and then he can carry on with his project.

[centurion]

Is the flame thrower referred to the Livens projector which, I understand, was first used on the Somme in 1916. I do not know much about thse but have read that the first gas containers to be fired from the projector were those used by ASC for lubricating oil and would guess these would be a trade pack in the manufacturers colours. Also, I suppose these were cylindrical cans while flimsies were rectangular.

Old Tom

Lubricating oil basically came in either 45 gal (Imperial) drums or 5 gal drums. The latter usually had a conical top (to make pouring easier). However some companies also used 4 gal flimsies for lubricating oil. Red was a common colour. Some 5 gal drums were hexagonal rather than round.

However I suspect there is some confusion here between the Livens Gallery flame projector which was a flame thrower and the Livens projector which was a single use mortar. Both were originally intended for throwing inflammable material but the projector was soon used for gas (not petroleum)

It was the relative failure of the Livens Gallery on the Somme that caused him to develop the Livens Projector.

[Chris P]

I don't see any flimsies here.

The cans in the pictures are Valor cans - after the makers. They were first made around 1912 -13, & were still being made in the sixties, almost unchanged.

Petrol was shipped over to France in these, & yes, they were originally in the manufacturers colours. They originated in the days before petrol stations, when one would buy 2 gallons from the chemists shop, paying a 2 shilling deposit on the can. These were also produced for the WD - I have had them dated from 1916, 17 & 18. All were in pale grey - green, with plain sides, with 'Petroleum spirit, Highly Inflammable' embossed on the top. They are usually date stamped & broad arrow marked on the handle.

Flimsies were 4 gallon thin tin disposable petrol tins, originally used to ship fuel commercially, before the days of bulk carriage. They were adopted by the RASC's POL (petrol, oils & lubricants) div. around 1935, & used up until the much superior jerry can, around 1942. They were so fragile, particularly caused by rapid changes of temperature splitting the seams, that average loss was expected of 1% per 10 miles travelled.

Best not to spark up!

Chris P.

[centurion]

I don't see any flimsies here.

The cans in the pictures are Valor cans - after the makers. They were first made around 1912 -13, & were still being made in the sixties, almost unchanged.

Petrol was shipped over to France in these, & yes, they were originally in the manufacturers colours. They originated in the days before petrol stations, when one would buy 2 gallons from the chemists shop, paying a 2 shilling deposit on the can. These were also produced for the WD - I have had them dated from 1916, 17 & 18. All were in pale grey - green, with plain sides, with 'Petroleum spirit, Highly Inflammable' embossed on the top. They are usually date stamped & broad arrow marked on the handle.

Flimsies were 4 gallon thin tin disposable petrol tins, originally used to ship fuel commercially, before the days of bulk carriage. They were adopted by the RASC's POL (petrol, oils & lubricants) div. around 1935, & used up until the much superior jerry can, around 1942. They were so fragile, particularly caused by rapid changes of temperature splitting the seams, that average loss was expected of 1% per 10 miles travelled.

Best not to spark up!

Chris P.

Whist the four gallon can was called a flimsy I've seen some sources stating that the 2 gallon can I posted a link to was at times also referred to by troops as a flimsy.

[Rockdoc]

Cans with suppliers' markings were still being issued in WW1. The group is a mix of ASC and RGA men of 99th AA Section in Salonika. When enlarged, the area to the right of the group shows the Shell symbol on all of tins that have been used to clad the Orderly Room.

The group:

Enlargement:

Keith

[centurion]

If the containers refer to the Livens Large Gallery Flame Projector then these were of about 12 gallons capacity and 12 inches in diameter. If they are those fired from the Livens Oil Drum Projector then they were ASC 3 gallon drums (originally used I think for lubricating oil) and also of about 12 inches in diameter. In the latter case they'd probably be a bluish grey in colour.

[fv1620]

2-gallon cans for petrol were to be painted light grey enamel for MT. For aircraft petrol they were to be painted red enamel with the two broad signs stencilled "A" in black 3" high.

50-gallon steel barrels for petrol were to be galvanised inside & out, on the outside painted in red enamel.

[Matthew]

My father used to have a red one which had a Shell logo embossed on the side and stating aviation spirits somewhere on it. Can't remember exactly where I'm afraid and its long gone.

[trajan]

'Inflammable' versus 'nonflammable'... Wasn't there some confusion between UK and US troops over the interpretation of this? I.e., to the US, inflammable means it is NOT 'flammable', and so it was safe sit down with a ciggie by cans marked 'Inflammable'?

Trajan

[fv1620]

I had never thought of inflammable in that alternative way, but I see what it could be taken to mean maybe. Reading from the 1943 "British Military Terminology" published by the US Military Intelligence Service it makes no reference to any clash of interpretation like that. Although it does cover motoring topics.

Anyway as for the wording on the WW1 2-gallon cans. The top was to be embossed:

PETROLEUM SPIRIT

HIGHLY INFLAMMABLE

The handle to be stamped with a broad arrow one end & at the other end the maker's name with date of manufacture in 5/16 in characters.