Artillery in the Great War

[Jack Sheldon]

Has anybody read this book, or know anything about it? Is it the book on this subject that we have all been waiting for?

Jack

[Chris_Baker]

I am almost finished with it, Jack, and will be writing a review shortly. It's a decent enough overview of the development of artillery and its usage (very broad - all armies and Eastern Front included).

[Jack Sheldon]

Thanks Chris

I shall wait for your full thoughts before I jump.

Jack

[Robert Dunlop]

Jack, I haven't read (or even seen) the book. Marble's other work has been ok-ish but not outstanding. It sounds like Chris might be saying something similar.

Robert

[rumplestiltskin]

I am looking for books on artillery on the western front i wonder if this will be worth reading or any recommendations on the subject.

[Michael Molkentin]

I am looking for books on artillery on the western front i wonder if this will be worth reading or any recommendations on the subject.

I haven't seen this book but I read his PhD thesis- it was very strong. I think it available online somewhere.

[Robert Dunlop]

FWIIW, I don't think the thesis is as strong as it appears. There is no doubting the effort that has gone into the research. It is the conclusions that are weak, IMHO. This is why I rated the material as 'ok-ish'.

Robert

[rumplestiltskin]

Morning all what books do you recommend reading about artillery on the western front

[ianjonesncl]

A few thoughts.........................

Just finished reading what I found was a fascinating book.

Moving through the Great War it documents the development of the use of Artillery by all the major Armies, British, German, French, Russian, Austro-Hungarian, as well as Italian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian and American. Looking at the development as a whole across the Western, Eastern Fronts and the Italian campaign, one can see that the Artillery War went beyond the trenches of the Western Front.

The impact of Artillery I think is well brought out. At the strategic level the availability of guns and ammunition shaped the timing and scope of operations, the tactical level influenced the planing of battles, and the outcome of battles being decided by the execution of those tactics. The cat and mouse of the tactics of close support and counter battery fire , the organisational changes to meet the ever evolving the handling of Artillery, and technical advances, are all fascinating, however, it must be remembered that this for what to my mind was experimenting in operational situations, cost many many men their lives.

The account of Bruchmullers fireplan in the Battle of Riga begins to show the value of concentration of force, co-ordination and surprise, three principles of war essential to the conduct of Artillery operations.

Unlike Farndale, History of the Royal Regiment of Artillery Western Front 1914 - 1918, where one is left with the impression the infantry need not have turned up, Strong and Marble rightly conclude " Nevertheless, even with all the technical and tactical innovation combined, even when they were orchestrated as part of a coherent strategy, success in Battle still depended on infantry advancing into a grim and confusing wasteland strewn with strong-points, machine gun nests and pockets of desperate men driven into a primeval need for revenge for the artillery fire they had just survived."

As well as providing a very good overall account of Artillery in the Great War, the organisation of the book into Years and within that chapter Battles, should make this a good reference book..

http://www.amazon.co...23028073&sr=1-1 .

[Robert Dunlop]

Thanks very much for your thoughts. The quote is particularly interesting. It illustrates the concern that I have with some of the analyses I have read in the past. When the artillery barrage was 'orchestrated as part of a coherent strategy' then it was often the case that the infantry advance was much easier than is made out. Rather than striking an enemy of 'desperate men driven into a primeval need for revenge for artillery fire they had just survived', the enemy would often be stunned and cowed. In these instances, the big problem was often the losses that occurred after the attack was made. Having formed a salient, the attacking infantry would consolidate and make ready for the next push. Conversely, the enemy artillery would also consolidate. Unlike the situation of the battle itself, where counter-battery fire would cause the artillery to move or to be suppressed and where communications were difficult, it was possible to zero in on the attacking enemy's new position and exact 'revenge'.

Still, no point in trying to debate a book that I haven't read. Especially on the basis of the one quote. So it's off to Amazon I go...

Robert

[Paul Hederer]

I've also not heard a word about the book or the thesis either. I'm curious how it will compare to works such as Linnenkohl's "Vom Einzelschuss zur Feuerwalze." I've ordered a copy from Amazon here in Germany--very curious to see what it offers.

Paul

[Justin Moretti]

From the reviews, this is sounding a bit like Graham and Bidwell's "Fire Power" restricted to WW1 but with its scope expanded to discuss all combatants rather than just concentrating on the British. If so, I think I'll be looking very seriously at it. If not, please do correct me and advise accordingly.

[Chris_Baker]

I have yet to write my review, being insufficiently inspired to do so.

[Robert Dunlop]

Chris, I can understand your comment. I am struggling to finish the book. It is largely based on secondary sources and is full of logical inconsistencies. This affects the conclusions that are drawn and makes for a very frustrating read. For example, early in the book there is a discussion about the use of field guns in direct fire mode to support infantry. The initial suggestion is that this was widely practised. Then the authors quote from Becke's study of the Battle of Le Cateau. They note, correctly, that the heaviest losses in field guns arose in 5th Division on Smith-Dorrien's right flank. This was due to more guns being placed well forward with the infantry. In the other two divisions, virtually all of the guns were placed in defilade and provided indirect fire controlled by observers. The conclusion should have been that, even in the Battle of Le Cateau, the use of field guns in direct fire mode was not the usual method of deployment. Subsequently, however, this comment appears in the chapter on 1914:

"While the [artillery] manual stated that 'indirect laying... is the normal method employed in the field', gunners were well aware that their main job was infantry support, regardless of method. Inevitably, the most detailed sections focused on the 'spirit of close support', noting with approval 'the moral effect of batteries advancing boldly'."

The authors have contrasted the point about 'indirect laying' with the other points. This gives the impression that the emphasis in gunners minds' was on direct fire in close support. No evidence is given to support this, and the earlier discussion on Le Cateau clearly (and rightly) showed that indirect fire was used by the majority - 5th Division was the anomaly and paid the price. The same evidence from Le Cateau puts paid to other comments in the same paragraph. It was implied, based on the Field Artillery Training manual of 1914 and the dispersal of British batteries in peace time, that there were problems with coordination of British artillery brigades. The lack of a clear role for Royal Artillery commanders, along with a lack of staff, was highlighted in this regard. The performance of almost all RA brigades at Le Cateau, by the authors' own description, demonstrated that the CRAs were very competent in coordinating their artillery assets.

I will push on and try to finish the book. From what I have read so far, however, the secondary sources would be a better investment IMHO.

The scope of the book is expanded to discuss all combatants but, so far, the book suffers severely for having done so, relying on the authors' interpretations of secondary sources.

Robert

[truthergw]

Thank you, Chris and Robert. I had this one ' saved for later ' and may now delete it completely. Unfortunately, not the book I have been looking for which is ideally an updated and less partisan Farndale.

[Paul Hederer]

I received my copy of this book shortly before Christmas and spent some time over the holidays scanning through the sections on German artillery, which is my interest. Mostly, I can only echo what's been mentioned before--the reliance on second-hand sources is a concern, and a LOT of good first-hand material on German artillery techniques and tactical development during the war was not used.

I found some of the points the authors felt compelled to emphasize confusing, and sometimes even contradictory--this may be the result of the reliance on second-hand sources and taking on the opinions of those authors.

After scanning through the sections that focused on German artillery I felt no compulsion to continue further.

Paul

[Capt_Starlight]

How well did the authors explain the development and use of SR, FS and aerial control techniques and the associated developments of survey, map making, C3I and how (and why) in the end, the British Army won the Artillery Battle over the Germans ? And similar developments and their effectiveness in the armies of the other belligerents?

[Robert Dunlop]

The authors touched on these issues but not much more detail than you provided in your post.

Robert

[rbrauerei]

I was going to start a topic asking about the best books on artillery in the Great War, specifically the Royal Horse Artillery, but first did a search to see what discussion might have already transpired. This topic has been helpfulp; so, rather than start a new one, I thought I'd ask my question here... From looking at this and other threads, here is a list of books that seem to be useful:

Artillery in the Great Wa' by Strong and Marble

Peter Hart’s Fire and Movement

Farndale, History of the Royal Regiment of Artillery Western Front 1914 - 1918

British Fighting Methods in the Great War edited by Griffith

I found these on Amazon and wonder if anyone has familiarity:

With the Guns of the B. E. F., 1914: A Personal History & Recollection by Arthur Corbett-Smith

With The Guns by C. A. Rose, Hugh Dalton

Earning My Spurs. with the Guns. Ww1 By MR M Poulson Ferguson

Anything else to add to the list?

[Khaki]

I was going to start a topic asking about the best books on artillery in the Great War, specifically the Royal Horse Artillery, but first did a search to see what discussion might have already transpired. This topic has been helpfulp; so, rather than start a new one, I thought I'd ask my question here... From looking at this and other threads, here is a list of books that seem to be useful:

Artillery in the Great Wa' by Strong and Marble

Peter Hart’s Fire and Movement

Farndale, History of the Royal Regiment of Artillery Western Front 1914 - 1918

British Fighting Methods in the Great War edited by Griffith

I found these on Amazon and wonder if anyone has familiarity:

With the Guns of the B. E. F., 1914: A Personal History & Recollection by Arthur Corbett-Smith

With The Guns by C. A. Rose, Hugh Dalton

Earning My Spurs. with the Guns. Ww1 By MR M Poulson Ferguson

Anything else to add to the list?

As from Kemmel Hill Behrend

Have read and reread many times, always enjoy it, I must read it again,

khaki

[Old Tom]

I have just read this book; a copy from my local library. Having found this thread I have nothing significant to add. I was looking for information on artillery plans which are mentioned but not in any detail. It is however a readable broad brush account of the Great War theatre by theatre and year by year.

[Doug504]

Rather late in on this thread.

 

Whilst doing some of my research into the continued environmental impact, (soil chemistry), from artillery fire on the woodlands of the Somme region I found the following online book an excellent introduction to the topic.

 

"The Infantry Cannot do With a Gun Less" The place of the artillery in the B.E.F. 1914 - 1918, Sanders Marble. This online resource can be found at;

 

http://www.gutenberg-e.org/mas01/index.html

 

Contains an excellent bibliography leading to many other documents and publications,  as well as some very good maps.

 

Doug

[Old Tom]

Many thanks! Having had a quick look that seems to fit the bill.