Any good reads for beginning researchers?

[penguy83]

Looking for any input in books or movies that would be a good read for a budding researcher. Preferrably in English.

[4thGordons]

Looking for any input in books or movies that would be a good read for a budding researcher. Preferrably in English.

I think you are going to have to be a little more specific.

Many members here have hundreds and hundreds of books on WWI covering every aspect, and even more opinions on their relative merits

Is there anything in particular you are interested in?

The big political picture of "causes"?

The strategic/tactical evolution?

Soldiers' eye view? / "eyewitness" accounts?

Command level views?

Technology, Weapons etc?

Any particular battle?

A particular unit? ( your local division for example)

Societal responses to the war, the list of sub topics is almost endless.

If you are entirely "new" to things WWI you could adopt one of two approaches - start broad and general and read around until something catches your fancy and then mine down in that or, alternatively, start with a very narrow topic (these things have a habit of expanding!)

Is the research you mention for a particular purpose? If so - that might give you a degree of direction.

Some suggestion as to where you would like to focus will probably generate some suggestions.

Hope this helps

Chris

[CarylW]

Looking for any input in books or movies that would be a good read for a budding researcher. Preferrably in English.

You'll probably have a lot of replies and each member who does might have their own favourites

After a couple of years of reading and research I still consider myself a beginner but the books I really started out reading were those written by Malcolm Brown and Lyn McDonald/ If it is a general overview of each key battle/year or aspect of conflict and first hand accounts, you might find them interesting

That's not that any of them should be classed as 'books for beginners', but I found them very useful and fascinating in the beginning and they led me onto researching individual aspects of interest to me reading other books

Caryl

[dfaulder]

You could start with websites. The Long Long Trail and the Western Front Association websites are two of good repute and may help you clarify the direction of your research.

David

[truthergw]

As Chris says, a very wide field and I would suggest a couple of the standard, Great War books to get you on more or less the same page as the silent majority as far as an overview is concerned. My suggestion is Hew Strachan Vol 1 of The First World War, ( there is no vol 2 and not likely to be), David Stevenson, First World War. Yo may then decide to specialise in some section which has caught your interest. Whatever it is, somebody on the forum will share that interest and be happy to advise. Try the 2nd hand book sites like ABE abd search for your key word. You can fill your house with books, lose your wife and family and be forced to sell the cat but it will be all worthwhile. Well, thats what most of us have done, why should you be different?

Look at Tom Donovan's site. Scour the Book Review sub forum.

[Ice Tiger]

You can fill your house with books, lose your wife and family and be forced to sell the cat but it will be all worthwhile.

A word of caution for you. There are probably more on here who can identify with this statement than those who can't. It cost me a loft conversion as my (normaly understanding) wife was beginning to drop serious hints that we were living in a museum & she would like her house back

If you decide to start collecting as well as researching you could easily find youself living off bread & water for a month (or two) when you have taken your bank balance dangerously in to the red for that "must have" item. Problem with must have items is that as soon as you purchase it another one takes its place

Seriously though; are you looking for books about the war or books on how to research the war?

Andy

[ph0ebus]

Don't even get me started. A local town has a town-wide garage sale day every year and this year I had to pass on so much awesome miltaria I am still openly weeping and darkening the skies with a cloud of profanity.

I can console myself with the lovely wingback chair we picked up for a song instead.

-Daniel

PS, read anything you can get your hands on and take nothing at face value.

[rksimpson]

Hi

For a general overview just read through the link at the top to The Long, Long Trail, it is packed of lots of good information and how to research.

Also National Archives put out a book about researching that is not bad as well (just google them)

regards

Robert

[penguy83]

You'll probably have a lot of replies and each member who does might have their own favourites

After a couple of years of reading and research I still consider myself a beginner but the books I really started out reading were those written by Malcolm Brown and Lyn McDonald/ If it is a general overview of each key battle/year or aspect of conflict and first hand accounts, you might find them interesting

That's not that any of them should be classed as 'books for beginners', but I found them very useful and fascinating in the beginning and they led me onto researching individual aspects of interest to me reading other books

Caryl

The librarian actually reccomended the three Lyn McDonald books that they had on the shelf. He talked as if he too was fascinated about the subject and had done some research. He stated that they were very good reads.

[penguy83]

A word of caution for you. There are probably more on here who can identify with this statement than those who can't. It cost me a loft conversion as my (normaly understanding) wife was beginning to drop serious hints that we were living in a museum & she would like her house back

If you decide to start collecting as well as researching you could easily find youself living off bread & water for a month (or two) when you have taken your bank balance dangerously in to the red for that "must have" item. Problem with must have items is that as soon as you purchase it another one takes its place

Seriously though; are you looking for books about the war or books on how to research the war?

Andy

Well just for right now, I'd want to just do research and write in my journals. I basically want to start in chronological order and research from the orgins of the war (which I'm doing right now) to the signing of the Treaty of Versaille. I've found that the orgins and causes of the First World War are so spread out, that one basically has to study all of European history to get a complete understanding of how things came about. (I'm just biting at the bit to also study the Franco-Prussian War.) As far as collecting goes, I KNOW my wife would leave me if I started dragging in militaria and other items from what she calls "a silly waste of time". She's already aggrivated from the amount of time I spend on the subject reading, writing and going to the library. Mind you this comes from a woman who watches MTV's Teen Mom religously .

I'll be sure to check out those sites guys. Thanks for the feedback.

[truthergw]

Well just for right now, I'd want to just do research and write in my journals. I basically want to start in chronological order and research from the orgins of the war (which I'm doing right now) to the signing of the Treaty of Versaille. I've found that the orgins and causes of the First World War are so spread out, that one basically has to study all of European history to get a complete understanding of how things came about. (I'm just biting at the bit to also study the Franco-Prussian War.) As far as collecting goes, I KNOW my wife would leave me if I started dragging in militaria and other items from what she calls "a silly waste of time". She's already aggrivated from the amount of time I spend on the subject reading, writing and going to the library. Mind you this comes from a woman who watches MTV's Teen Mom religously .

I'll be sure to check out those sites guys. Thanks for the feedback.

Origin of the Great War is a subject I am interested in and I have about a hundred books more or less closely related. As you say, includes European history. I drew my arbitrary line at the Crimean War. Michael Howard did a very good job on the Franco Prussian War. Getting on now but still a good starting point. Origins is a very contentious subject and a hot potato to this day. All sorts of Nazi and Neo-Nazi connotations mixed in with genuine analysis.

[penguy83]

Origin of the Great War is a subject I am interested in and I have about a hundred books more or less closely related. As you say, includes European history. I drew my arbitrary line at the Crimean War. Michael Howard did a very good job on the Franco Prussian War. Getting on now but still a good starting point. Origins is a very contentious subject and a hot potato to this day. All sorts of Nazi and Neo-Nazi connotations mixed in with genuine analysis.

Maybe you could give me your input on something I've found and have posted on this forum under a different section. You sound as if you might be able to give quality feedback on this.

http://1914-1918.inv...howtopic=164754

I'll keep you in mind if I find anything else I might need guidance on.

Wes

[centurion]

Well just for right now, I'd want to just do research and write in my journals. I basically want to start in chronological order and research from the orgins of the war (which I'm doing right now) to the signing of the Treaty of Versaille. I've found that the orgins and causes of the First World War are so spread out, that one basically has to study all of European history to get a complete understanding of how things came about. (I'm just biting at the bit to also study the Franco-Prussian War.) As far as collecting goes, I KNOW my wife would leave me if I started dragging in militaria and other items from what she calls "a silly waste of time". She's already aggrivated from the amount of time I spend on the subject reading, writing and going to the library. Mind you this comes from a woman who watches MTV's Teen Mom religously .

I'll be sure to check out those sites guys. Thanks for the feedback.

All theatres, all combatants, every aspect? As De Gaulle once said (when a drunken aide de camp declared 'death to all fools') "an ambitious programme".

There's The Western Front, The Eastern Front, The Alpine Front, The Isonzo Front, Galipoli, Salonika, Tsen Tao, Mesopotamia, Egypt and Palestine, Persia, Armenia,German South West Africa, German East Afrika, Yemen, Romanian Front, The Western Desert, Balkans, Togoland and many more (it isn't called a World War for nothing). Then you've got the Naval campaigns (did you know that Brazilian and Japanese destroyers served in the Med?) and the air wars.

I fear that the "start at the begining and carry on until you reach the end and then stop" approach is, like the quote itself, pure Alice in Wonderland and following it you'll end up like the African Queen lost in a myriad of forever branching and joining tributaries. What you need is a good overall aerial view so to speak and then home in on the particular strands that interest you. Of all the members of the forum, erudite though many may be, there is no one who is even remotely expert on everything. The Long Long Trail will give you a good but somewhat British orientated view point. I would suggest a good primer first but as my initial reading was in my grandfather's library I suspect that what I cut my teeth on is long out of print (and written when most of the world was coloured in hunting pink some what out of date in its view point). Perhaps one of our less antiquated members can recommend.

[penguy83]

All theatres, all combatants, every aspect? As De Gaulle once said (when a drunken aide de camp declared 'death to all fools') "an ambitious programme".

There's The Western Front, The Eastern Front, The Alpine Front, The Isonzo Front, Galipoli, Salonika, Tsen Tao, Mesopotamia, Egypt and Palestine, Persia, Armenia,German South West Africa, German East Afrika, Yemen, Romanian Front, The Western Desert, Balkans, Togoland and many more (it isn't called a World War for nothing). Then you've got the Naval campaigns (did you know that Brazilian and Japanese destroyers served in the Med?) and the air wars.

I fear that the "start at the begining and carry on until you reach the end and then stop" approach is, like the quote itself, pure Alice in Wonderland and following it you'll end up like the African Queen lost in a myriad of forever branching and joining tributaries. What you need is a good overall aerial view so to speak and then home in on the particular strands that interest you. Of all the members of the forum, erudite though many may be, there is no one who is even remotely expert on everything. The Long Long Trail will give you a good but somewhat British orientated view point. I would suggest a good primer first but as my initial reading was in my grandfather's library I suspect that what I cut my teeth on is long out of print (and written when most of the world was coloured in hunting pink some what out of date in its view point). Perhaps one of our less antiquated members can recommend.

Yes I see what you're saying. Maybe I've set my goals too high.

[CarylW]

As Chris says, a very wide field and I would suggest a couple of the standard, Great War books to get you on more or less the same page as the silent majority as far as an overview is concerned. My suggestion is Hew Strachan Vol 1 of The First World War, ( there is no vol 2 and not likely to be),.....Scour the Book Review sub forum.

Good advice. Hew Strachan Vol 1 is a mighty fine tome - a mighty massive one at that. Must confess I haven't read it from cover to cover but very useful to dip into

Isn't he writing another one Tom? Apparently took the poor man fifteen years to write the first of the expected three volumes, so could be for any number of reasons.(?)

penguy. In common with other members, as well as reading about aspects of interest, I just read anything and everything I can get my hands on, even WW1 subjects that I wouldn't normally be interested in. Found a copy of a book about tanks and although not something I'm that interested in, I couldn't put it down! Likewise with other aspects of the war

If researching chronologically is your preferance then do it that way, as long as you enjoy what you read, and it doesn't feel like a chore. I admire anyone who can research in such a methodical way

You may or may not be aware but there are a lot of free WW1 books to download at archive.org Many written during and just after the war. If you have a Kindle you can download a lot of them onto that which should please your missus, if she is anxious about you using up living space, (and you can carry all those books around with you) As someone posted though, don't believe all you read - as in any other subject but I'm sure you know that

I've also read quite a few books recommended by forum members and there are some fine authors on here

Noticed in your subject title you mentioned "good reads" Two other favourites of mine, recommended by forum members "There's a Devil in the Drum" John Lucy, and "Storm of Steel": Ernst Junger

Caryl

[penguy83]

Good advice. Hew Strachan Vol 1 is a mighty fine tome - a mighty massive one at that. Must confess I haven't read it from cover to cover but very useful to dip into

Isn't he writing another one Tom? Apparently took the poor man fifteen years to write the first of the expected three volumes, so could be for any number of reasons.(?)

penguy. In common with other members, as well as reading about aspects of interest, I just read anything and everything I can get my hands on, even WW1 subjects that I wouldn't normally be interested in. Found a copy of a book about tanks and although not something I'm that interested in, I couldn't put it down! Likewise with other aspects of the war

If researching chronologically is your preferance then do it that way, as long as you enjoy what you read, and it doesn't feel like a chore. I admire anyone who can research in such a methodical way

You may or may not be aware but there are a lot of free WW1 books to download at archive.org Many written during and just after the war. If you have a Kindle you can download a lot of them onto that which should please your missus, if she is anxious about you using up living space, (and you can carry all those books around with you) As someone posted though, don't believe all you read - as in any other subject but I'm sure you know that

I've also read quite a few books recommended by forum members and there are some fine authors on here

Noticed in your subject title you mentioned "good reads" Two other favourites of mine, recommended by forum members "There's a Devil in the Drum" John Lucy, and "Storm of Steel": Ernst Junger

Caryl

Thanks Caryl, I have already found some bogus information trying to be passed on as fact; yes one does need to be cautious. I'm actually browsing through some of the old books on Google Books about the war. I find that many of the more recent works have used these old works as reference. Its amazing the amount of information that is out there. I'll keep my eye out for your recommended reads; I'll take those titles to the local library and see if they can get them for me.

[SWorrall]

Re: Lyn MacDonald: her work is very useful and I'm a fan. Every one of her books adorns my 'den'. But, she does not apply a critical view to the people she has recorded. All of their accounts are laid down as if they are the unvarnished truth.

two problems arise with this approach.

1) Accounts which are written 'after the event' and not contemporaneously are subject to distortion through the 'accepted version' of history. Their accounts can be moulded to fit certain 'facts', whether true or myth. And the perception of the war changed dramatically over time, especially after WW2.

2) even if the accounts are not distorted by fitting into myth, they represent the view as seen by one man at a single point on the Western Front. He only tells what he could see. Anything else is conjecture on his part.

Being aware of that distortion, and applying a critical mind as ph0ebus suggests, is a great asset. For example: if someone mentions Haig to a layman then they will probably think 'Butcher'. But his funeral was attended by tens of thousands of his men and his reputation in the 1920's was fairly good. Understanding that change has happened is important.

A school of thought developed in the post-WW2 period, especially in the 1960's. It swept away all the contending viewpoints and ossified the public view of WW1 as 'futile'. Alan Clark's 'Donkeys' exemplifies this 'accepted' view of history. Then as a counterpoint to that view read Sheffield's Forgotten Victory', or Corrigan's 'Mud, Blood & Poppycock'. Dan Todman explores how and why the 'accepted' version developed over time, until the reality was obscured in favour of a myth, in his 'The Great War: Myth and Memory'. These more recent historians, who are trying to challenge the accepted history are known as the 'revisionists'. To me their arguments are compelling, but if you read their work you may come to the opposite viewpoint.

Everyone who writes is putting forward a version of reality. Even an Official History, of a battalion, or a division, or of the British war effort, is subject to 'spin'. They all seek to promote a positive view of their contribution to the war. Clark simply wanted to make a lot of money.

It's a compelling pastime to have and can become an obsession, as many have noted. Start with a good overall History of the War. Identify your areas of particular interest, then focus on them and how they fit into the overall picture.

Good Luck! And I join with our Pals in hoping that your wallet is loaded and that you have a large room with big bookcases.... and an understanding family.

Simon.

[CarylW]

Simon

An exceptionally fine post, if my opinion counts for anything. Clear, concise and informative

If I were teaching the subject of the Great War, I would ask you if I could print that out and use it as a hand-out for students/pupils!

Caryl

[SWorrall]

Caryl,

Coming as it does from a Pal of great knowledge & long-standing your praise is far more than my just desserts.

So I thank you for your kind words.

Simon.

[penguy83]

Re: Lyn MacDonald: her work is very useful and I'm a fan. Every one of her books adorns my 'den'. But, she does not apply a critical view to the people she has recorded. All of their accounts are laid down as if they are the unvarnished truth.

two problems arise with this approach.

1) Accounts which are written 'after the event' and not contemporaneously are subject to distortion through the 'accepted version' of history. Their accounts can be moulded to fit certain 'facts', whether true or myth. And the perception of the war changed dramatically over time, especially after WW2.

2) even if the accounts are not distorted by fitting into myth, they represent the view as seen by one man at a single point on the Western Front. He only tells what he could see. Anything else is conjecture on his part.

Being aware of that distortion, and applying a critical mind as ph0ebus suggests, is a great asset. For example: if someone mentions Haig to a layman then they will probably think 'Butcher'. But his funeral was attended by tens of thousands of his men and his reputation in the 1920's was fairly good. Understanding that change has happened is important.

A school of thought developed in the post-WW2 period, especially in the 1960's. It swept away all the contending viewpoints and ossified the public view of WW1 as 'futile'. Alan Clark's 'Donkeys' exemplifies this 'accepted' view of history. Then as a counterpoint to that view read Sheffield's Forgotten Victory', or Corrigan's 'Mud, Blood & Poppycock'. Dan Todman explores how and why the 'accepted' version developed over time, until the reality was obscured in favour of a myth, in his 'The Great War: Myth and Memory'. These more recent historians, who are trying to challenge the accepted history are known as the 'revisionists'. To me their arguments are compelling, but if you read their work you may come to the opposite viewpoint.

Everyone who writes is putting forward a version of reality. Even an Official History, of a battalion, or a division, or of the British war effort, is subject to 'spin'. They all seek to promote a positive view of their contribution to the war. Clark simply wanted to make a lot of money.

It's a compelling pastime to have and can become an obsession, as many have noted. Start with a good overall History of the War. Identify your areas of particular interest, then focus on them and how they fit into the overall picture.

Good Luck! And I join with our Pals in hoping that your wallet is loaded and that you have a large room with big bookcases.... and an understanding family.

Simon.

First off, I have to agree with Caryl, this was a excellently written post. Thank you for that.

Secondly, this post makes me come to a realization that our search for the "truth" is in vain. Reason being, since that there is no person left living who was involved in the war, we have only old documents and books to rely upon for our reference. These themselves can be biased, exaggerated or just plain wrong, no matter who wrote them or when they were written; as I have found out myself. As stated in your post, no one person can state total "truth", they only know what they may or may not have seen. Their perceptions of things that happened being distorted with time and the excitement of war only worsens the situation.

So in conclusion, (not trying to sound depressing, or shoot down anyone's dreams) I think we are wasting our time...

But dangit, I find it interesting and entertaining anyways!

[SWorrall]

First off, I have to agree with Caryl, this was a excellently written post. Thank you for that.

....

So in conclusion, (not trying to sound depressing, or shoot down anyone's dreams) I think we are wasting our time...

But dangit, I find it interesting and entertaining anyways!

I'm glad that you take a favourable view of that post. It is most generous of you to say so.

I was also relieved to get to the final line. Reading the bulk of your post first, I feared that I may have deterred you.

The search for truth may be frustrating, annoying, have many dead-ends. But it also has insights and pleasures, is illuminated by discoveries and by friendships crafted along the way.

I can only observe that no search for 'truth', in any field of endeavour, is ever a waste of time. Especially here on the GWF.

The spirit in which so many people debate their differing points of view here, usually without rancour and in a respectful & scholarly manner, is part of what makes this place a joy to be part of.

The rest is the way that so many knowledgeable and erudite Pals give freely of their time and experience to assist those who seek their own truth.

Often in the shape of a long-dead ancestor about whom they wish to learn more. And which their pals are ready to assist them with.

Simon.

[auchonvillerssomme]

Try and get hold of the DVD reprint of the documentary 'The Great War' (BBC 1964).

[rumplestiltskin]

There were many copies of this DVD collection on a certain auction site.

Try and get hold of the DVD reprint of the documentary 'The Great War' (BBC 1964).

[penguy83]

Try and get hold of the DVD reprint of the documentary 'The Great War' (BBC 1964).

I have that series already. It's a very good documentary.

[GRANVILLE]

When it comes to researching the experience of the war, I very much favour material written by those who were there. There are many accounts that have been published, but some of the classics are still classic.

Her Privates We by Frederic Manning.

Undertones of War, Edmund Blunden.

A Private in The Guards, Stephen Graham,

Tell England, Ernest Raymond

Up to Mametz, Wyn Griffith

Amongst these titles I would also recommend 'I Was There, Undying memories of 1914-1918' as edited by Sir John Hammerton.

Dave