Private Ernie Phillips (1/15th London)

[Matthew King]

I am having a bit of a problem in my research of a certain soldier and wondered if anyone could help of give some advice of suggestions. The problem is that I’m getting lots of contradictory evidence. I am very much a amatur at this and not sure what to do in such a situation. Here is allthe edvidence I have.

The soldier in question is Private Ernie Philips.

I have a letter (dated 12/7/1915) where my Grandfather says Ernie has joined the "Prince of Wales Own Civil Service Rifles" and his Cap Badge seems to back this

I have two letters from Ernie before the war with his address as “42 Harecurt Ave, Manor Park”

My Grandfather wrote on the back of a photo of him that he died 5th Jan 1916.

I have a letter from Ernie’s mum (dated 18th Jan 1916) about how Ernie has been reported missing in action. Her address is given as “42 Harecurt Ave, Manor Park” as well.

Looking on the CWGC site only one Philips is mentioned for that regiment and that is the and that is ERNEST ARTHUR PHILLIPS , Private, 531481, "A" Coy. 1st/15th Bn., London Regt (Prince of Wales' Own Civil Service Rifles), who died on Friday 15 September 1916 . Age 21 . Son of Arthur and Charlotte Phillips, of 37, Rancliffe Rd, East Ham, London

The name, regiment and age are all right but the date of death and address are not. Looking at the Regiment History book there also was a large battle on the 15th September 1916 yet nothing listed at the beginning of Jan 1916, though there was a bombing patrol with very heavy loses on the 20th December 1915.

Could this be an error on the CWGC site, different man or could there be another reason.

Any help would be great, Thanks

Matt

[Terry Denham]

Matt

Family stories are often wrong and should be carefully checked. Also memory plays tricks.

I would guess that CWGC's date is correct. SDGW has same date and adds that he enlisted at Somerset House, London and lived in Manor Park. He seems to be your man.

The difference in address is easier. The addresses supplied by n-o-k to CWGC were those at which they lived in the early 1920s when they returned their Final Verification Forms. They are not always the same as those at which they lived during the war.

[Matthew King]

Thanks Terry for the help

I thought the that a house move was the most likely, just didn't know when the CWGC got the address.

So it does seem most definite that this is the same man. The only thing really that still makes me wonder is the letter from his mother to my Great Grandmother it seems so final, how would a mother be informed that her son was Missing in Action? So maybe Ernie went missing in action, found his regiment again before being killed in September 1916. I haven't found any mention of Ernie turning up again but will read through all the letters again very carefully.

Matt

[Matthew King]

Hi Terry

Just out of interest does the SDGW entry give the date he enlisted?

Thanks

Matt

[Terry Denham]

Matt

SDGW does not give any dates for enlistment on any entries.

You are now left with trying to solve a problem which may not be possible.

He may have been missing and later turned up. The date in the letter could be wrong. They may have notified the nok that he was missing in error.

All are possible and the weight of evidence for the later date is growing. You could apply for his death certificate which will show his date of death in about the most conclusive way likely.

You can do that on-line now from the GRO.

[Matthew King]

Thanks again for your help Terry.

Guess it will remain an unknown. But I'll keep my eyes open for any clues

[Matthew King]

Quick update

Found a letter in December 1916 from my grandfather saying Ernie went MIA on the 15 September, so that means that the CWGC is correct. Thinking about it the date on the letter from his mum could easly have been written wrong as it was written in January, must admit I write the wrong year for the first days of a new year.

Ernie went missing in the Battle of High Wood where the Rifles managed to take and hold the German Trenches but suffered great loses at the same time.

Thanks for everyones help in researching Ernie.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

One avenue to explore apart from the PRO is the local newspaper covering Manor Park. Sometimes these carried obituaries of soldiers with useful biographical info.

Ian