German Ammunition Pouch

[shippingsteel]

I've recently been looking at some of these ammunition pouches and need a little information on the finer points of identification & types, etc.

Is it correct that the standard model pouch was of the three-pocket type, which colour should they be in, and did they all come in the pebble-grain leather.?

And could anyone who is familiar with these pieces of equipment help me identify the maker of this particular piece, and does the stamping appear correct.?

It looks to be a firm that was based in Hannover, stamped over the date of 1915. Help would be appreciated as I'm only just branching out into these leather-goods.!

Cheers, S>S

[P.B.]

Hello

The "standard" ammo pouch used by German infantrymen in WWI was the M1909 model consisting of a triple compartment pouch holding a total of 60 rounds of 7.92 mmunition. I say "standard" because in reality a variety of obsolete, captured and wartime emergency pouches were also used, especially early war and by reserve units.

I've attached a photo of a typical example from my collection -early pouches are made from pebbled brown leather with brass fittings, steel fittings made an appearance in 1915 as brass was needed for essential war materials and -also in late 1915- regulations ordered that all leather equipment be blackened, although this does not appear to have been consistently done. Late-war pouches were sometimes made from substitute materials like vulcanised fibre rather than leather. Later examples are also found in smooth, as opposed to pebbled, leather.

There was also a version of this pouch for mounted troops which was thinner and held only 30 rounds.

Maker-marks and dates are typically found stamped to the centre-rear of the pouches, and sometimes ink stampings to the interior of the compartment lids show the Army Corps or individual unit the pouch was issued to. Some pouches also have "SA" stamped within a square on them which shows that they were used post-WWI by the Finnish Army.

Your pouch looks to an absolutely correct example of a M1909 infantry ammunition pouch -I can't identify the maker as such, but it all looks textbook to me so far.

Thanks for showing it, all the best

Paul.

[P.B.]

Another from my collection,again in pebbled brown leather with steel fittings, and made by H Stohr and Co of Berlin in 1916, and showing the ink stamping of the 1st Army Corps:

All the best

Paul.

[John Thorne]

The "bible" on these pouches is Alfred Kruk's Patronentaschen, Patronengürtel und Banduliere 1850-1950. This 346 page volume covers ammunition pouches, ammunition belts, and bandoliers from 37 countries, with (not surprisingly), 57 pages devoted to Germany. It's in German, but is well worth the effort.

[shippingsteel]

Many thanks Paul for your kind response and for adding those excellent photos which really helped a lot.

Your summary also cleared up quite a few of those nagging questions which I was a little unsure of so thanks very much for that.

Also thanks for the other references which have been provided - it is always good to know where to turn to get that specific information.

From what I can gather my example is the M1909 pouch which was made to carry the 3x5 chargers in each individual pocket, so 45 rounds.

Did they all have just the single divider/partition in each pocket and how did that work when they were carrying the 3 chargers in each.?

Mine appears to be made from the darker brown pebble leather with some possible traces of black staining, and has the brass fittings.

From the collectors perspective which are more favoured - mint unissued examples or good condition issued pouches with the stampings.?

Cheers, S>S

[P.B.]

You're welcome..I actually typed an error in my original post, the pouches hold 60 rounds, not 45, each individuakl pouch takes four 5-round charger clips.

The rounds are carried in the pouches in 5-round charger clips which are inserted nose-end downwards into the pouch, with two clips fitting behind the divider and two in front. It's actually quite a snug fit, and fairly easy to withdraw the rounds by grasping the charger clip when you want to reload.

In terms of collector value it's condition that counts -many examples on the market are squashed from heavy use or have the internal dividers missing or the ends of the retaining straps damaged, so a collector will look for complete examples that retain their original shape well. Examples bearing post-WWI Finnish markings are also worth slightly less.

Early examples with brass fittings do tend to fetch a little bit more, but it all depends on what an individual collector is looking for -if I was putting together a 1914 mannequin I'd want unblackened brass fitted examples, if it was a 1916-18 dated impression then steel fitted examples would be more desirable.

Very rarely, matched pairs made by the same maker in the same year are encountered, and these command a premium. Even though I'm pretty much a purist when it comes to collecting, my thoughts are that most soldiers did not receive an absolutely matched pair, and that it's perfectly acceptible to have two pouches worn together that are from different makers providing they broadly match in terms of construction. It's highly likely that as replacement pouches were issued a mixture of brass and steel fitted pouches would even be worn.

Hope this is of some use and interest, all the best

Paul.

[shippingsteel]

Just a quick update on these pouches - I have managed to identify the maker mark as shown on the rear of the pouch - it is "Ryffel & Borns, Hannover, 1915".

Apparently they were quite a common maker of military leather products including ammunition pouches, frogs, mapcases and holsters right through to WW2.

Cheers, S>S