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Walter William Collier & Walter Lawrence Collier


ChrisC

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Hi everyone

I am searching for information about my Great grandfather, Walter William Collier and my Grandfather, Walter . I know that Walter Wiiliam died in the UK in 1917 whilst in the Royal Defence Corps, and is buried in Woolwich military cemetery. That is the only fact. Family stories said that he was a regular soldier recalled to the colours, having joined the HLI in 1881. It is said the he was gassed in France and reemployed on home service guarding internees at Alexandra Palace and was then busted from Colour Sergeant for belting a German with his rifle butt because the man cheered as a Zeppelin flew over!

His son Walter Lawrence, I have heard enlisted under age and I know nothing of his war service. I do know that he served in Afghanistan in 1921 with the Queen's Royal West Surreys as I have some photographs which I will attempt to post if anyone is interested.

I have looked up the Medal Cards at Kew with no luck, so I would be very grateful for suggestions.

Thanks

Chris

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From the cwgc (www.cwgc.org)

Name: COLLIER

Initials: W W

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment: Royal Defence Corps

Unit Text: 23rd Coy.

Age: 50

Date of Death: 14/12/1917

Service No: 14546

Additional information: Husband of Ada Collier, of 87, Grosvenor Rd., Westminster, London.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: I. "C." B. 1212.

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Hi Chris

Welcome to the Forum

From Soldiers Died in the Great war

14546 Private Walter William Collier

Royal Defence Corps

Died Home, 14/12/1917

born Pimlico

Enlisted Pimlico

Formerly 19880 10th London Regiment

He may have only served at home and was not therefore entitled to any medals hence you being unable to find him in the cards at Kew.

Steve

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Hi

There are only three Colliers shown on the Medal Index Cards as having served with the Royal West Surrey Regiment. One of them is 99 Private W. Collier Royal West Surrey Regiment also served as 189082 Private in the Machine Gun Corps. That would put him as joining the MGC in about July/Aug 1918.

Steve

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Chris:

I found your Walter W. Collier in 1901 on the Census.

He is lister as a soldier living with his wife and son.

gordon

Name Age in 1901 Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County

Adelaide Collier 27 Taunton, Somerset, England Wife Wandsworth London

Walter L Collier 1 Paddington, London, England Son Wandsworth London

Walter W Collier 32 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Head Wandsworth London

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Hi all

Thanks for the replies. mark1 thanks, confirms CWGC for Great grandad, wonder about the cause of death though? hmsk 212, brilliant. Question, which regiment was the 10th London affiliated to, was it Territorial, New Army or Regular? Also the link to Walter Lawrence is interesting as I heard that he enlisted in a fit of patriotism after his Dad returned home on August 4th - probably from the pub! -crying "At last - WAR WAR!"

How can I find if either really served overseas?

gord97138, could the Adelaide in the CWCG records translate to the Ada??

Thanks for all. It has whetted my appetite. The census shows, as I thought that they came from Wiltshire and that WW walked and carted from there to Hamilton Barracks Glagow to enlist in the HLI in 1881. His brother Job was apperently already a Cpl there. WW served in South Afric 1900. I have some anotated maps, "With the flag to Pretoria". Any more info will be greatly appreciated.

Chris

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gord 1 its absoletely right for the family. dates are good. Where the heck do I go from here??

Chris

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Chris:

I hope this will help you also!

1871 Census of your g/grandfather(as a child) and family:

gordon

Name Age in 1871 Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/

Albert Collier 6 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Son Westbury Wiltshire

Anne Collier 8 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Daughter Westbury Wiltshire

Bessie Collier 5 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Daughter Westbury Wiltshire

Elizabeth Collier 31 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Wife Westbury Wiltshire

Henry Collier 34 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Head Westbury Wiltshire

Leanortsh Collier 1 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Daughter Westbury Wiltshire

Oliver Collier 9 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Son Westbury Wiltshire

Walter Collier 3 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Son Westbury Wiltshire

Having a little trouble finding him in 1891!

Yes!-Ada is another name for Adelaide.

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Thanks gord! Where do you find all this out? Do you think it would be useful to contact regimental museums to find out about the military service of Walter William and his son?

I will now try to attach a photo of my grandfather. It is a fragment of one printed as a postcard and he wrote on the back:

With fondest love to My Dear Mother, your loving (missing) Wall Feb 2nd 19(missing).

hope it works and thanks again

Chris

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which regiment was the 10th London affiliated to, was it Territorial, New Army or Regular? How can I find if either really served overseas?

Hi Chris

1/10th County of London Battalion (Hackney) They were part of the Territorial Force

04/08/1914 The Grove, Hackney NE : 3rd London Brigade. Ist London Division

Mid August 1914 To Bullwater near Pirbright

Sept 1914 Crowborough

April 1915 to East Midland Brigade. East Anglian Division at Norwich

07/05/1915 formation became 162nd Brigade. 54th Division

May 1915 to St Albans

End of July 1915 sailed from Plymouth for Mudros

11/08/1915 landed at Suvla Bay

Dec 1915 left Gallipoli and went to Egypt

You can check further details about the 1/10th London Regiment on the mother site.

Steve

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I heard that he enlisted in a fit of patriotism after his Dad returned home on August 4th - probably from the pub! -crying "At last - WAR WAR!"

Chris

Hi Chris

Probably just family tales gradually getting stretched/ altered over the years. If he had enlisted then he would have only been 14 which is a bit young to have got away with it. At 15 and a half to 16 and then yes he may have been able to con the enlistment sergeant but 14 I very much doubt it. ( Doesn't mean to say that he didn't at least try)

Please have an attempt to put your photos on the soldiers or uniform part of the forum as I am sure that these will get more attention from the experts

Steve

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Chris:

Here's the 1881 of your g/grandad Walter-hope this has helped with your research-

He's working as a Porter in 1881.

gordon

Dwelling 12 & 14 Warwick St "Warwick House"

Census Place London, Middlesex, England

Walter COLLIER Porter U Male 12 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Drapers Porter

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Thanks gord! Portering at 12 years old!! The youth of today don't know they're born. Actually that's very interesting. Things are a bit confusing as I'm sure you know with family history several generations removed, but I was told that 1881 was the year he joined the Army. The story is as Iv'e said earlier in the thread, but could he enlist as a boy soldier at 12 or 13? Somewhere there is supposed to be an Army issue prayerbook or Bible inscribed "Walter William Collier, Hamilton Barracks 1881". Curioser & curiouser!

Are Army records for the last quarter of the 19th century available?

With reference to his son Walter Lawrence, I have posted a photo on the Soldiers forum and I'm going to take a trip to the Queen's Regiment Museum tomorrow to show them his photos from Waziristan 1921. I have also emailed the Surrey Historical centre who hold Queen's Regiment records.

Thanks again to all who have taken the time & trouble to help me.

Chris

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Chris:

I found this on the 1891 Census-

Shows him as age:26(maybe transcriber error(or changed his own age to join)-

also listed as Malmesbury,Wilt(same area)

(3 other soldiers preceding him are listed as from Malmesbury)-also as a Corporal-Horsed Foot Barracks,Kensington.

Hope all this has helped you,(I would be curious on some info on the

"Horsed Foot Barracks"!).

Also on the middle name Ama(I enlarged the 1891 census cert(looks like the name is William not Ama)(I think another transcribers error-quite common errors.).

gordon

Name: Collier, Walter Ama

Age in 1891: 26

Gender: Male

Where Born: Malmesbury, Wiltshire

Civil parish: Kensington

Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Abbotts

County: London

Source information: RG12/29

Registration district: Kensington

Sub registration district: Kensington Town

ED, institution, or vessel: Horsed Foot Barracks

Folio: 143

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Thanks mate

What's his occupation in 1891? If he was a 12 year old porter 10 years earlier, was 1891 when he took the shilling? What's the meaning of the "view image"? Can any access this information on the web or do you need special permission?

Sorry for all the questions!!

Chris

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Paul:

It's always okay to ask questions-that's how we get answers-and this is the

BEST site to be asking them-Great bunch of members here-always willing

to help!

Occupation in 1881:Porter

1891:Soldier

1901:Soldier

The census in 1881 was in early Spring(March or April)-so being a Porter

he "could" of joined the military afterwards anytime in 1881(would have probably

added a few years to his age at the time)(not uncommon)!

I subscribe to many family history sites(that's why I can access them).

I was able to view the actual census records for those years-that's usually

how I'm able to spot transcriber errors.

I live here in NW Oregon(USA)-so helps to have the internet to do my family

history in England!

Was over there last month-just wasn't able to make it to the PRO to

look up my family's WW1 military records.

I'll leave that to the next trip in 2005.

gordon

Let me know on any other help you need.

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WOW! you're in the States, 6000 miles from here and you know as much, if not more about my family as I do! Now that really shows it's a small world. Thanks!

Chris

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