ChrisC Posted 16 July , 2004 Share Posted 16 July , 2004 Hi everyone I am searching for information about my Great grandfather, Walter William Collier and my Grandfather, Walter . I know that Walter Wiiliam died in the UK in 1917 whilst in the Royal Defence Corps, and is buried in Woolwich military cemetery. That is the only fact. Family stories said that he was a regular soldier recalled to the colours, having joined the HLI in 1881. It is said the he was gassed in France and reemployed on home service guarding internees at Alexandra Palace and was then busted from Colour Sergeant for belting a German with his rifle butt because the man cheered as a Zeppelin flew over! His son Walter Lawrence, I have heard enlisted under age and I know nothing of his war service. I do know that he served in Afghanistan in 1921 with the Queen's Royal West Surreys as I have some photographs which I will attempt to post if anyone is interested. I have looked up the Medal Cards at Kew with no luck, so I would be very grateful for suggestions. Thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markl Posted 16 July , 2004 Share Posted 16 July , 2004 From the cwgc (www.cwgc.org) Name: COLLIER Initials: W W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment: Royal Defence Corps Unit Text: 23rd Coy. Age: 50 Date of Death: 14/12/1917 Service No: 14546 Additional information: Husband of Ada Collier, of 87, Grosvenor Rd., Westminster, London. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. "C." B. 1212. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 16 July , 2004 Share Posted 16 July , 2004 Hi Chris Welcome to the Forum From Soldiers Died in the Great war 14546 Private Walter William Collier Royal Defence Corps Died Home, 14/12/1917 born Pimlico Enlisted Pimlico Formerly 19880 10th London Regiment He may have only served at home and was not therefore entitled to any medals hence you being unable to find him in the cards at Kew. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 16 July , 2004 Share Posted 16 July , 2004 Hi There are only three Colliers shown on the Medal Index Cards as having served with the Royal West Surrey Regiment. One of them is 99 Private W. Collier Royal West Surrey Regiment also served as 189082 Private in the Machine Gun Corps. That would put him as joining the MGC in about July/Aug 1918. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gord97138 Posted 16 July , 2004 Share Posted 16 July , 2004 Chris: I found your Walter W. Collier in 1901 on the Census. He is lister as a soldier living with his wife and son. gordon Name Age in 1901 Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County Adelaide Collier 27 Taunton, Somerset, England Wife Wandsworth London Walter L Collier 1 Paddington, London, England Son Wandsworth London Walter W Collier 32 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Head Wandsworth London Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted 16 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2004 Hi all Thanks for the replies. mark1 thanks, confirms CWGC for Great grandad, wonder about the cause of death though? hmsk 212, brilliant. Question, which regiment was the 10th London affiliated to, was it Territorial, New Army or Regular? Also the link to Walter Lawrence is interesting as I heard that he enlisted in a fit of patriotism after his Dad returned home on August 4th - probably from the pub! -crying "At last - WAR WAR!" How can I find if either really served overseas? gord97138, could the Adelaide in the CWCG records translate to the Ada?? Thanks for all. It has whetted my appetite. The census shows, as I thought that they came from Wiltshire and that WW walked and carted from there to Hamilton Barracks Glagow to enlist in the HLI in 1881. His brother Job was apperently already a Cpl there. WW served in South Afric 1900. I have some anotated maps, "With the flag to Pretoria". Any more info will be greatly appreciated. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted 16 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2004 gord 1 its absoletely right for the family. dates are good. Where the heck do I go from here?? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gord97138 Posted 17 July , 2004 Share Posted 17 July , 2004 Chris: I hope this will help you also! 1871 Census of your g/grandfather(as a child) and family: gordon Name Age in 1871 Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/ Albert Collier 6 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Son Westbury Wiltshire Anne Collier 8 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Daughter Westbury Wiltshire Bessie Collier 5 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Daughter Westbury Wiltshire Elizabeth Collier 31 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Wife Westbury Wiltshire Henry Collier 34 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Head Westbury Wiltshire Leanortsh Collier 1 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Daughter Westbury Wiltshire Oliver Collier 9 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Son Westbury Wiltshire Walter Collier 3 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Son Westbury Wiltshire Having a little trouble finding him in 1891! Yes!-Ada is another name for Adelaide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted 17 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 17 July , 2004 Thanks gord! Where do you find all this out? Do you think it would be useful to contact regimental museums to find out about the military service of Walter William and his son? I will now try to attach a photo of my grandfather. It is a fragment of one printed as a postcard and he wrote on the back: With fondest love to My Dear Mother, your loving (missing) Wall Feb 2nd 19(missing). hope it works and thanks again Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 17 July , 2004 Share Posted 17 July , 2004 which regiment was the 10th London affiliated to, was it Territorial, New Army or Regular? How can I find if either really served overseas? Hi Chris 1/10th County of London Battalion (Hackney) They were part of the Territorial Force 04/08/1914 The Grove, Hackney NE : 3rd London Brigade. Ist London Division Mid August 1914 To Bullwater near Pirbright Sept 1914 Crowborough April 1915 to East Midland Brigade. East Anglian Division at Norwich 07/05/1915 formation became 162nd Brigade. 54th Division May 1915 to St Albans End of July 1915 sailed from Plymouth for Mudros 11/08/1915 landed at Suvla Bay Dec 1915 left Gallipoli and went to Egypt You can check further details about the 1/10th London Regiment on the mother site. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 17 July , 2004 Share Posted 17 July , 2004 I heard that he enlisted in a fit of patriotism after his Dad returned home on August 4th - probably from the pub! -crying "At last - WAR WAR!" Chris Hi Chris Probably just family tales gradually getting stretched/ altered over the years. If he had enlisted then he would have only been 14 which is a bit young to have got away with it. At 15 and a half to 16 and then yes he may have been able to con the enlistment sergeant but 14 I very much doubt it. ( Doesn't mean to say that he didn't at least try) Please have an attempt to put your photos on the soldiers or uniform part of the forum as I am sure that these will get more attention from the experts Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gord97138 Posted 17 July , 2004 Share Posted 17 July , 2004 Chris: Here's the 1881 of your g/grandad Walter-hope this has helped with your research- He's working as a Porter in 1881. gordon Dwelling 12 & 14 Warwick St "Warwick House" Census Place London, Middlesex, England Walter COLLIER Porter U Male 12 Westbury, Wiltshire, England Drapers Porter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted 17 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 17 July , 2004 Thanks gord! Portering at 12 years old!! The youth of today don't know they're born. Actually that's very interesting. Things are a bit confusing as I'm sure you know with family history several generations removed, but I was told that 1881 was the year he joined the Army. The story is as Iv'e said earlier in the thread, but could he enlist as a boy soldier at 12 or 13? Somewhere there is supposed to be an Army issue prayerbook or Bible inscribed "Walter William Collier, Hamilton Barracks 1881". Curioser & curiouser! Are Army records for the last quarter of the 19th century available? With reference to his son Walter Lawrence, I have posted a photo on the Soldiers forum and I'm going to take a trip to the Queen's Regiment Museum tomorrow to show them his photos from Waziristan 1921. I have also emailed the Surrey Historical centre who hold Queen's Regiment records. Thanks again to all who have taken the time & trouble to help me. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gord97138 Posted 17 July , 2004 Share Posted 17 July , 2004 Chris: I found this on the 1891 Census- Shows him as age:26(maybe transcriber error(or changed his own age to join)- also listed as Malmesbury,Wilt(same area) (3 other soldiers preceding him are listed as from Malmesbury)-also as a Corporal-Horsed Foot Barracks,Kensington. Hope all this has helped you,(I would be curious on some info on the "Horsed Foot Barracks"!). Also on the middle name Ama(I enlarged the 1891 census cert(looks like the name is William not Ama)(I think another transcribers error-quite common errors.). gordon Name: Collier, Walter Ama Age in 1891: 26 Gender: Male Where Born: Malmesbury, Wiltshire Civil parish: Kensington Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Abbotts County: London Source information: RG12/29 Registration district: Kensington Sub registration district: Kensington Town ED, institution, or vessel: Horsed Foot Barracks Folio: 143 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted 17 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 17 July , 2004 Thanks mate What's his occupation in 1891? If he was a 12 year old porter 10 years earlier, was 1891 when he took the shilling? What's the meaning of the "view image"? Can any access this information on the web or do you need special permission? Sorry for all the questions!! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gord97138 Posted 17 July , 2004 Share Posted 17 July , 2004 Paul: It's always okay to ask questions-that's how we get answers-and this is the BEST site to be asking them-Great bunch of members here-always willing to help! Occupation in 1881:Porter 1891:Soldier 1901:Soldier The census in 1881 was in early Spring(March or April)-so being a Porter he "could" of joined the military afterwards anytime in 1881(would have probably added a few years to his age at the time)(not uncommon)! I subscribe to many family history sites(that's why I can access them). I was able to view the actual census records for those years-that's usually how I'm able to spot transcriber errors. I live here in NW Oregon(USA)-so helps to have the internet to do my family history in England! Was over there last month-just wasn't able to make it to the PRO to look up my family's WW1 military records. I'll leave that to the next trip in 2005. gordon Let me know on any other help you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted 17 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 17 July , 2004 WOW! you're in the States, 6000 miles from here and you know as much, if not more about my family as I do! Now that really shows it's a small world. Thanks! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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