1/3rd Battalion London Regiment -

[Guest lidzy]

Hello All!!

Attached is a photo of (in all likelyhood) my great great uncle : Private 3011 Thomas Huffer, who was with the 2/3rd Londons in Egypt/Gallipoli, and later was killed, aged 19, on active service with the 1/3rd Londons on 12th September, 1916. I say "in all likelyhood" because I don't actually know which chap he is in the photo, or if he actually is in it, but the photo was found among my great grandmother's belongings, and is signed on the back "To Sis love Tom". Thomas Huffer's sister, Julia, (My great Grandmother) was called "Sis" or "Sissy" by everyone in the family.

-----------------------------------ANYWAY,------------------------------------------------- what I was wondering about is the distribution of ranks in the photo. It doesn't really seem to tally with a Company HQ, for example. Of the 15 men present there are, I think , a lieutenant, a 2nd Lieutenant, two Serjeant-Majors (CSM and RSM???), a sergeant, 4 corporals, a lance-corporal, 6 privates and 2 whose rank can't be determined.

--------------------------------------MY QUESTIONS---------------------------------------

1)Would anyone like to put forward any theories/informed guesses/wild speculation/hard facts as to why this particular group of men and ranks would be gathered for such a photo - are they a particular sub-unit; the survivors of an action; being posted together???

2)The officers look very young, and very sad, and one of them is wearing a black armband - I didn't think that was allowed in the army for private reasons. Does anyone know of a likely source for finding named photographs of officers (local papers, regimental newsletters?)

3) Any theories as to roughly when (and even where?) the photo was taken? It is presumably pre-September 1916 (when Thomas died). Are there any clues or pointers in the photo (uniforms?) that could date it approximately?

Sorry for the long post--------- All comments and theories gratefully received!!!

All the best,

Tony

[Paul Reed]

It looks like a course to me; could you do a better scan of the two officers so I can see their rank? Might help.

[Guest lidzy]

Helllo Paul.

I'm attatching a scan of the 2 officers, hopefully it's a bit better quality. If it's not clear enough, maybe I can send you an email with the photo uncompressed? Say if you think that's a good idea.

All the best,

Tony

[Guest lidzy]

Hello All!

As an aside, my Dad, who did his national service in 1950 - 1952, said that even when he was in the army, group photos were arranged like this one - privates in the front, with those on the left crossing their legs inwards, those on the right also crossing their legs inwards; officers and senior NCO's with feet planted on floor, and back row with arms behind back. Army tradition or coincidence?

All the best,

Tony

[Ali Hollington]

I know that was still the "army way" for photos recently, so with regards to the photo it could as already mentioned be a course of some description or a group/section such as the signal section or transport. Where crossed flags being used as a signallers badge in those days?

Ali

[Paul Reed]

Thanks - that's clear enough.

The officers are a Second Lieutenant with the armband and a Lieutenant without.

I have some group photos of men that I know to be bombing officers who are wearing a similar armband - perhaps it is a grenade course?

Sorry can't help much further.

[Guest lidzy]

Hello All!!

Thanks everyone for the comments/replies. I think the idea of a course sounds feasible, especially as the preponderance of officers and NCO's (2 officers and at least 8 nco's) to privates (6 privates, possibly 8) seems to me to be rather strange. I also thought that it might be part of the cadre or core of troops (10%?) that were left out of battles to help reconstitute a battalion in the event of heavy casualties. But maybe that was later on in the war - my man died in September 1916.

Any ideas as to date? Any clues? (pips on sleeves, tunic types?)

Thanks again for the replies,

All the best,

Tony