Discharged due to sickness & Silver War Badge

[kevin ley]

I wonder if anyone can give me some advice on where to start my research on this one.

My Gt. Grandfather served with 1st Bn, Royal Irish Fusiliers from 2/9/14-28/7/16 and was discharged due to sickness and got a SWB.

I know he disembarked in France 1/5/15 (I assume Boulogne) and he was gassed at Ypres (2nd Ypres). From the war diaries and the battalion history written by the CO I know his unit were based around St. Julien and Wieltje in May and there was a major gas attack on 24th May they were involved in. I then know his unit moved towards the end of July down to Colincamps as part of the build up to the Battle of the Somme. His unit were involved on 1st July 1916 jumping off at the Sunken Road near Beaumont Hamel and involved on the attack on the Heidenkopf (Quadrilateral) trenchs.

Is it safe to assume that if you were discharged on 28th July 1916 that it is unlikely that you would have been involved on 1st July 1916?

I really don't know much about the medical procedure that was followed if one became a casulaty during an action. Does anyone know the procedures from field dressing stations to behind the lines hospitals or being sent home to hospital. To be honourably discharged sick I assume a senior medical officer would have to sign that off?

Any help would be appreciated. Slowly but surely the pieces come together.

Many thanks,

Kevin.

[munchkin]

Kevin there is a good explanation of how the medical side of war works on THE LONG LONG TRAIL HERE As for the discharge bit, i am not sure. One of my relatives was wounded in 1918, and i thought that he must have fought in one particular battle to grt his wounds. This was not actually the case, he was wounded weeks before and spent time in hospital. On the other hand he could have ??. Dont fall into the trap of (i think this happened), as invariably it is not always the case.

Glynn.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

From what you state that he was Gassed @ Ypres in 1915,I feel this is a more likely scenario to lead to his discharge{especially as "Sickness" is given as the reason~This was often the euphamism for Gas Injuries}in 1916,probably being in a Military Hospital/Convalescance Home; up until that sort of time,the time span between 1st July & 28th July 1916 from a tentative wound to discharge sounds a tad rapid for the softly softly approach of the Military Clerical machine{Men that lost limbs were often discharged months or even a year or so later than when the wounds were received*,}with this sort of research it is not safe to "Assume" anything really unless it is confirmed by Service papers; Casualty Returns,etc;{try your{his} local paper of the time,for reports of his being wounded{gassed} & wether he was returned to duty or where he was Hospitalized}.Good Luck!

* ie;when all that could be medically/prosthetically, done for them was exhausted

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

The procedure for being discharged under Kings Regulations paragraph 392 subsection whichever in that the soldier was no longer physically fit for service in any branch of HMF, involved a medical board which met to decide the individual soldier's case. The Medical Board only considered cases once the soldier had recovered to a degree that any other improvement would or not as the case maybe take a significant period of time. Obviously a man who lost both limbs or was blinded would probably be of limited use, if any at all, to the military but he needed to recover and recuperate before facing a medical board and discharge. There were of course other implications with regard to disability pensions where boards had to confirm the degree of disability before the level or amount of pension was decided.

However on a brighter note it was not uncommon for men to be medically downgraded from A to B2 to later be re-graded to A again. There are examples where you see men who are posted to the Labour Corps after having been wounded only to return to an infantry unit later having regained their medical category. An interesting example of the work of medical boards can be seen in George Coppard's book 'With a Machine Gun to Cambrai'. After being wounded for the second time at Cambrai, he was downgraded to B2.

So to yuor question re your gt-grandfather, I would doubt very much whether he was in the line or indeed even in France on 1 July 1916.

Being gassed usually came under the wounded category but in some SWB rolls, such as the Royal Engineers and the Connaught Rangers, it is listed separately with the entry 'Gassed' in place of 'Wounds' or 'Sickness'. Interestingly both these units mentioned shell shock separately as well.

The entry sickness can cover a complete multitude of sins and accounted for far more casiualites than being wounded when units were simply in the line and not involved in any major activity, for example the 2nd Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers were in the line near Armentieres during the period after the 2nd Ypres and being posted to Salonika. In the period June to October 1915 they suffered more than 250 men sick and only 32 wounded, and during this time they were not involved in anything major other then routine manning of trenches and fatigue parties. The sickness label covered everything from pneumonia to piles, trench foot to an ingrowing toe nail!

Hope this helps.

Ian

[kevin ley]

In the SWB roll for Royal Irish Fusiliers I have seen it only seems to say either "sickness" or "wounds". I am starting to wonder if he was sick from gassing now at all. The living relatives I have only stated that he was "gassed". From that I infer that he was subject to gas (hardly uncommon!). It may not have been the source of his "sickness" and discharge. It could have been but now very hard to prove one way or the other. From the war diaries my understanding is that most of the gas attacks of May 1915 were minor i.e. chlorine was not as hazardous as the mustard gas used later. Also the war diaries states that at the end of May 15 the battalion used sprayers in the trenches which were effective at neutralising the chlorine gas. They also talk about the respirators and the "mixture" as being effective. Interestingly they also mention the use of lachrymatory shells fired by the Germans that were effective at stinging the eyes and there was nothing that could be done about those.

Later on in the diaries it also mentions an outbreak of enteric fever in one of the villages in France.

Maybe I shall follow up on the newspaper angle to see if anything can be found there.

Thanks again to the forum for all your help.

Kevin.

P.S. I have just come back from a Bartletts tour of the battlefields around the Ypres Salient and the Somme. It was very moving to follow the trench maps and walk the ground around the German Cambrai and Camel trenches near Wieltje. Even got to see a German pillbox opposing the British trenches where Great Grandad was hunkered down May 15. An eery experience.

[laughton]

Thanks for leading me here - as I had a Silver War Badge from my grandfathers collection and I did not understand the meaning. I had not previously noted the number on the back. As Chris is helping me track down some information at the PRO or wherever, that was useful information.

I have a picture of the SWB and this new information at:

http://www.censol.ca/research/greatwar/mem...memorabilia.htm

Just when you think that you are not getting new information from the Forum, you get a great lead like this. Thanks Pals!!

Richard of Canada