The Confusion of Command

[Old Tom]

This recently published book consists of two parts of the memoirs, written well after the war, of General Snow; one as a divisional and one as a corps commander. The content has been edited by Dan Snow the grandson of the General. I am finding it an interesting read, and may write a review when it is finished.I could not find any reference to it in this forum.

Old Tom

[Chris_Baker]

There is this one, at least: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=160061&st=0&p=1551035&hl=+confusion%20+snow&fromsearch=1entry1551035

[charlesmessenger]

I am also currently reading it and, like Old Tom, finding it interesting, at least Snow's own accounts of August 1914 and Ypres 1915 interesting. The notes are quite helpful, but some of the photograph captions are very inaccurate. That of the 1st Cameronians before Le Cateau claims that the CO, Philip Robertson, is the mounted officer when he is the grey haired figure on foot. Worse is that of Snow supposedly as a corps commander in France, when it is clearly a postwar pic of him, in his capacity of Colonel of the Regiment, with officers of what I suspect is a TA battalion of the Somerset Light Infantry.

Charles M

[Old Tom]

The thread Chris mentioned dried up in April last year, it was largely concrned with efforts to obtain the book. We now seem to have two threads. May I correct my comment above? The two portions of memoirs are both when Snow was a divisonal commander, they are quite short and while an interesting read are very much memoirs, General Snow did not hesitate to to criticise GHQ and the S of S. His opinions carry a ring of realism. Snow, grandson, and the other editor try to support the extracts with references to the official history.

Old Tom

[bruce]

Thanks for this Tom.

The book is on my "to read" pile....and has now risen to the top.

Bruce

[Old Tom]

The memoir bits do not take long to read being; some 30 pages on the the mobilisation and operations of the 4th Division until General Snow was injured when his horse fell, and another 30 odd pages on the 27th Division from its formation in November 14 to mid July 15 when General Snow was selected for promotion. The remainder of the 219 pages are notes relating General Snow's memoirs to the official history and detailed appendices including orders, orbats and casualties.

I am inclined to think that the publication by Dan Snow and Mark Pottle is uncertain of its aim. The extracts from the General's memoirs well illustrate and justify the title of the book but, in view of General Snows later service as a Corps Commander his part in the Somme battles, leave one wanting to know if his opinion of the higher conduct of operations improved. Perhaps the editors intend a further production, I hope they do! The notes and appendicies contain much that is available elsewhere, but would be valuable if this was one of ones first attempts to grapple with the Great War.

Old Tom

[Guest]

Would anyone recommend this book? I am thinking of buying. Snow appears to have been rather outspoken on some aspects of the campaign in 1914.

It seems quite cheap on Amazon now. MG

[Stoppage Drill]

Thomas d'Oyly Snow was the first common ancestor of Peter (and thus Dan) and Jon Snow.

Jon provided a foreword to Ronald Skirth's "Reluctant Tommy" which was less than complimentary about his ancestor. It would interest me to know how Dan plays things.

Skirth was critical of Snow, but his book is an oddity to say the least, and has been savaged as little better than fantasy in some quarters. Maybe. Nevertheless, the content regarding d'O Snow may provide a worthwhile counterbalance to Dan's efforts.

[Guest]

Thomas d'Oyly Snow was the first common ancestor of Peter (and thus Dan) and Jon Snow.

Jon provided a foreword to Ronald Skirth's "Reluctant Tommy" which was less than complimentary about his ancestor. It would interest me to know how Dan plays things.

Skirth was critical of Snow, but his book is an oddity to say the least, and has been savaged as little better than fantasy in some quarters. Maybe. Nevertheless, the content regarding d'O Snow may provide a worthwhile counterbalance to Dan's efforts.

Dan Snow appears to have changed his mind on his forbear. Trawling the internet he appears to have been in the lions and donkeys school, then must have read a book, changed his mind and now thinks he wasn't such a bad character. Dan Snow appears to have got the sequence of events in the wrong order, forgetting to do the research first. The family at one stage seemed rather keen on talking the old man down. Playing to an imagined audience?

With regards to Thomas D'Oyly, my only slight reservations are that his memoirs were written some years after the events. His thoughts are nevertheless interesting as he seems to be one of the more outspoken critics of the way the Retreat was conducted if the few fragments I have read are any indication. I would be interested to hear if anyone has seen the original diaries and the later transcription. I believe Haig's diaries and published accounts differ somewhat, so there is 'form' among the upper ranks to polish accounts.

Fergusson's diaries (5th Div and later a Corps Commander) are one set of 1914 memoirs I would dearly like to read if the do indeed exist. MG

[David Filsell]

If Dan's involved, then !nuff said. It's sound on Grandpa, using his quotes but that's about it.

[Frank_East]

If Dan's involved, then !nuff said. It's sound on Grandpa, using his quotes but that's about it.

I was reading an abridged review of this book this morning and thought how is David going to bat on this one.....final comment from the reviewer....An honest account by a Great War general.

[Guest]

Great War memories are something I find really interesting. A lifetime ago I waded through the CAB 45 files for Gallipoli - the correspondence between the author of the OH and senior surviving officers. One could write a book simply on the differences in recollections of the same events. One Commanding Officer actually accused another of being a lair (a dispute over who took Scimitar Hill on 8th Aug 1915). What really struck me about the correspondence is the deep honesty of some of the correspondents. More than a few (writing in the late 1920s and early 1930s) admitted that their memories were simply not up to the challenge; Interesting comments given the very extreme nature of the experiences they were trying to recall. Why did these men find it so difficult to remember when we hear time and time again of veterans 'clearly' remembering extreme events. More than a few referred to their own diaries kept at the time. Interestingly some of the original personal diary records were shown to be inaccurate - by sheer weight of counter-evidence - particularly with regards to timings and sequences of events.

The general tone (excuse the pun) of the correspondents was one of passive helpfulness rather than trying to force their own version of events (with a few notable exceptions). At one end of the scale some simply acquiesced to the 'other' view, while some (notably 11th Diva and 10th Div) were extremely forceful in their views despite lots of contrary evidence.

It stuck in my mind. It was rather a good pool of evidence to illustrate just how fragile memories are, even when prompted by notes and diaries. It has made me very cautious of any recollections made years after events - hence my concerns that d'O Snow's memoirs were written years after events. Presumably his mind had been exposed to furious alternative versions by the likes of French, Smith Dorrien, Haig etc. MG

[David Filsell]

Cab45 is a fascinating file. What they don't contain is a interesting as what they do. The remaining material must be the result of weeding,but every time I have used it a mystery has either turned up or been resolved. Not least they always underline the huge problems confront Edmonds and his team.