munchkin Posted 7 August , 2004 Share Posted 7 August , 2004 Hi All, One of my soldiers was discharged in 1916, presumably from a wound or gas or similar. He earned the SWB. My question is would he have recieved a pension. Glynn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 7 August , 2004 Share Posted 7 August , 2004 Thats a lot of assumptions. SWB was to disabled, unfit, who had served, even only at Home, not only those wounded. The W stood for War, not wound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munchkin Posted 7 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 7 August , 2004 I appreciate that th "W" stood for war. I also know he was unfit for the army after this time. In view of this would he have been eligable to recieve a pension ?. Glynn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 7 August , 2004 Share Posted 7 August , 2004 Glynn My father who had the SWB did get a pension. Have not got the papers in front of me so can't at the moment be very specific. It seemed to depend on a 'Board' who assessed the extent of disability, quoted as a percentage I think and presumably on the extent to which a recipient was able to work. The award was for a certain amount of time and then was reviewed again with a time specification and the amount altered. The amount was not huge but I have revised my opinion of its value based on the wages payable at that time. Sorry not to have given exact amounts. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munchkin Posted 7 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 7 August , 2004 Thanks Kate, I see, so basically it was worked out on the extent of injury lay off time (so to speak), and calculated accordingly. Presumably as the person recovered the amount paid would have been reduced?. Thanks for that Kate. Glynn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 7 August , 2004 Share Posted 7 August , 2004 I see, so basically it was worked out on the extent of injury lay off time (so to speak), and calculated accordingly. Presumably as the person recovered the amount paid would have been reduced?. They were notoriously difficult to obtain,my late Grandfather Walter George Drake,ASC[No4 Field Bakery] had been Gassed in 1915 & subsequently Discharged,was denied one,even though he was virtually unfit for the rest of his Natural,& had 4 Children,the discharge pensions were awarded @ the discretion of local "Boards" of the "Good & The Great"[& whose feet didnt always walk on the same soil as the rest of humanity~a Bit like today really}It was up to them if a Disabled Veteran was granted a Pension of a few Shillings & Pence,a Week.A Land fit for Heroes? ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munchkin Posted 7 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 7 August , 2004 You would have thought that they would "automatically" get some sort of pension, for what they had done and the injuries some of them suffered. I guess that was not the done thing in those days. Thanks Harry. Glynn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 7 August , 2004 Share Posted 7 August , 2004 Glynn Here are some of the specifics I mentioned. Pte W. Gibbon was shot in the stomach at St. Julien and was in hospital in Lincoln from May 1915 - Sept. 1916 Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 7 August , 2004 Share Posted 7 August , 2004 Interim awards 1918 & 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 7 August , 2004 Share Posted 7 August , 2004 Final Award 1925 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 7 August , 2004 Share Posted 7 August , 2004 Final, final award 1926 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 7 August , 2004 Share Posted 7 August , 2004 My father became ill in 1955 and was unable to work from Feb. He died in Nov 1955. I think this pension was quite good even though his wound was severe. He was able to work but his job was as a signwriter so it was not heavily physical work. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munchkin Posted 8 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 August , 2004 Thanks Kate, What a great look into the past. I feel that the award amounts for the pension were quite good, although not enough for what these lads had done. I was under the impression that pensions were for life, and adjusted accordingly as the years went by. Thanks again for all your input. Glynn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 8 August , 2004 Share Posted 8 August , 2004 Glynn Even though my mother obviously didn't archive all of the letters, it does seem that the earlier stages were dependent on a medical and then there was a final assessment and award in about 1925 which was for life. It looks as though my father didn't have to go for medicals after that unless presumably he had claimed for additional allowances. Lifelong necessity for medicals would have been expensive to administer. There even seems to be a provision for index linking although I can't tell whether this happened because I haven't got the intervening letters or the pension book. I must say that in copying these docs for you I looked at them more closely and particularly the dates. So your question has made me focus more closely on the materials I had. This is one of the benefits of the Great War Forum, I think. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIGHSPEN Posted 8 August , 2004 Share Posted 8 August , 2004 Are the Ministry of Pensions official records available for research? I am particularly interested in looking for some background information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 8 August , 2004 Share Posted 8 August , 2004 Sorry Highspen I don't know. The docs I have posted are ones which were with my father's things. I think I have heard people on this forum say that it would be easier to trace records for people who had a pension. It would be wonderful if this info is available in some way. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munchkin Posted 8 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 August , 2004 Kate, This forum is the best forum on the web (to me anyway). I joined in November 2003, after doing my family tree for what seems like 100 years. It was whilst doing the tree, and knowing about Joseph Tew who fought in the great war, it intrigued me. Thats when i decided to see if i could find out more. I came across the forum and never looked back. As you say it makes you see things in a different light, when you look at them again. I am pleased that ALL the pals on the forum are always ready to give advice and/or lookup information at the drop of a hat. Thanks to you all. Lets keep the memories alive. Thanks Again Glynn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 8 August , 2004 Share Posted 8 August , 2004 I think I have heard people on this forum say that it would be easier to trace records for people who had a pension. Hi Kate; I think that the reason it is considered "easier" to obtain Service Records for those in receipt of a Pension.ie usually those awarded the SWB,is that their Service Records were not destroyed in the Blitz of 1940 as they were housed in a different place,& consequently they survived.whereas many of those who had not been pensioned were destroyed in the Bombing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIGHSPEN Posted 8 August , 2004 Share Posted 8 August , 2004 Kate- -and Harry Thanks for your replies Which now begs the question --where and how easy is it to access the papers of those medically discharged? Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 8 August , 2004 Share Posted 8 August , 2004 Soldiers papers at the National Archives are in three collections, and add up to some 2.8 million men. WO363 = the main collection of soldiers papers. Includes a mix of those killed, survived, discharged to pension, etc. But only about 30% of the original total as the rest were destroyed by fire in 1940. WO364 and PIN26 = other, smaller, collections of soldiers papers. The former is a set of records collected from various government departments after WW2, the majority from Ministry of Pensions. The PIN26 series is a miniscule sample (22,000 soldiers) of papers of men discharged to pension, or where a widows pension was granted. I guess on average you have a marginally greater chance of finding the records of a man discharged to pension, simply because WO364 and PIN26 exist. But it is still, given the relative sizes of the collections, only 30-35% - ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munchkin Posted 9 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 9 August , 2004 Thanks Chris, It is obvious that i will have to get to the PRO at some stage. Thanks Glynn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 9 August , 2004 Share Posted 9 August , 2004 Probably should ask this in a separate thread but, does anyone know the amount of a war widow's pension? Presumably it was based on number of children & circumstances. I read somewhere that a closer estimate of WW1 casualties could be arrived at by finding the information about various pensions paid out. Whoever wrote this said that the number of war pensions alone was greater than the lumped totals of casualties in official figures. Sorry, can't remember the originator of this piece of information and a note of caution because it may be a factoid. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philary Posted 9 August , 2004 Share Posted 9 August , 2004 Hello Glynn My Great Uncle received a pension granted in 1925, some 6 years after he was demobbed. It was, to quote his service record, a "Conditional award after reject, Art1 (1) 1919 PEAT Discussion. 100% disability, Delusional Psychosis aggravated by war. 43s/4d per week for a year, or for as long as in Asylum." He was single. From family reports this seemed to continue for the rest of his life. He died in 1979. I have looked up the pension records catalogue online and the sample kept appears to end at letter L in the alphabet. I hope someone will confirm this or not! However there are records of the medical boards at the PRO and I hoping that in the near future I will be able to look at these and see if they record details of people who were being assessed. (PIN15/11 1924-26 & PIN15/10 1921-24). Again can anyone help with more information? Hilary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munchkin Posted 9 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 9 August , 2004 Thanks Hilary, I just wish i lived closer to the PRO, or at least the pro should have an online lookup service. Oh well dream on. Thanks again. Glynn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 9 August , 2004 Share Posted 9 August , 2004 It was, to quote his service record, a "Conditional award after reject, Art1 (1) 1919 PEAT Discussion. 100% disability, Delusional Psychosis aggravated by war. 43s/4d per week for a year, or for as long as in Asylum." He was single. Hilary Do you think this reads that your great uncle was rejected for further service under Article 1 (1) and the PEAT discussion decided the percentage in 1919. and what is a PEAT discussion? Or that he was initially rejected for the 100% disability allowance? It would mean that we know the final value of a 30% disability pension and 100% disability without allowances for children. Those PIN references seem like they may be the key to the Holy Grail. 43s 4d does not seem much if he couldn't work at all. On the other hand, I think my father's weekly wage in work was about £1.50. in 1916. He was 21 and single. If I can check this wage, I find that I am quite wrong its just a general impression. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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