Broznitsky Posted 11 August , 2004 Share Posted 11 August , 2004 If a fellow received training on firing the Lewis, would such training (dates, place) be expected to show up on his service record somewhere? How about if he was #2 or lower on the totem, should training be recorded somewhere? Peter in Vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will O'Brien Posted 11 August , 2004 Share Posted 11 August , 2004 Peter I can't really give you a definitive answer but I would hazard a guess that such training would appear in a soldiers' service record. I base this on the following observation......................I have done a lot of research on local casualties & something I have noticed is that whenever they have been Lewis Gunners or part of the gun team, that fact has been extremely prominent in obituaries, newspaper reports etc. There would appear to be some sort of kudos associated with the Lewis gun & I wonder whether there was the same importance attached to it within the army as it seemingly was to those outside it. If it was, undoubtedly being proficient with the weapon would be worthy of note on a service record..............Just a theory which may fall apart quicker than a chocolate fireguard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 11 August , 2004 Share Posted 11 August , 2004 Training courses often appear on the casualty form in the service record. These seem to be courses where the man was struck off unit strength as he was being posted away from his unit. The casualty form does give dates and places. I have seen mentions of courses in 19th London officers records. These include signals and bombing schools and seem to be at Corps or Army level (and perhaps higher?) I suspect that locally provided training (e.g. at Bn or Brigade level) where the officer or soldier would have stayed on the strength of his unit is not so meticulously recorded - all the record would have needed to note was the outcome or qualification. this is certainly not definitive, would be interested in other observations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 11 August , 2004 Share Posted 11 August , 2004 I'm sure it is mentioned on one of my grandfather's discharge papers. I also have a picture of him with the rest of what I assume is a battalion party on a Lewis Gun course in 1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnie Posted 12 August , 2004 Share Posted 12 August , 2004 Lewis gun Training I am fairly sure that a qualified Lewis Gunner would have it on his records some where. Probably on his pay record the same as a Marksman, signaller, Pioneer etc who would qualify for proficiency pay. This is supported by the issue later of 'LG' badge for a qualified Lewis Gunner. I think the the LG badge is still used for a marksman on a light machine gun. Arnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 12 August , 2004 Share Posted 12 August , 2004 Peter I have a uniform to a man in the 85th Battalion he has the L.G. Badge on his tunic I sent for his service records no mention of Lewis gun training. I beleive he received his training in Canada thus the reason for the ommission in his service files. I also have a trio to a man in the 25th he was a member of the machine gun section of that battalion he was one of five captured when the machine gun section was over run. His service record also has no mention of machine gun training the 25th was using Colt machine guns at the time. I think it is possible that your man still could have recieved the training. Best regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred W Posted 12 August , 2004 Share Posted 12 August , 2004 One of my uncles was awarded a MM as a Lewis Gunner (1st Bn Coldstream Guards) in March 1918. His service records have no mention of any training. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcderms Posted 12 August , 2004 Share Posted 12 August , 2004 I would be surprised if at least pre-1916 records did not show LG training as they show other 'specialist' skills such as marksman etc. Soldiers attended courses and were then badged accordingly. I do know that it was quite common for the #2 to miss formal training and be given this on the job by the #1. The rest of team - ammo humpers and loaders did not get any off the job training at all, to the best of my knowledge. What other skills did/did not appear on records - bombers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 12 August , 2004 Share Posted 12 August , 2004 The certificate below was included with this mans medals when I purchased them many years ago. I would have thought a duplicate certificate of this nature would have been kept with his records. I was mildly surprised that even Pioneers had Lewis Gunners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 12 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 12 August , 2004 As Pioneers served in the front lines, a Lewis or several would be handy. I think they would have also been useful when some BEF Pioneer units were used as infantry in stop-gap measures . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred W Posted 12 August , 2004 Share Posted 12 August , 2004 Perhaps men who were trained on the Lewis gun in England before going to France went on courses and received certificates. Maybe those who received on the job training whilst at the Front didn't. Incidentally I notice that the date on the certificate shown above is May 1919. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred W Posted 12 August , 2004 Share Posted 12 August , 2004 Whoops sorry 1918 not 1919. I should learn to put more water with it.. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill Posted 12 August , 2004 Share Posted 12 August , 2004 I was mildly surprised that even Pioneers had Lewis Gunners. I have been browsing through the War Diaries of the 2nd Canadian Pioneer Battalion. Included is a syllabus of training whenever they were out of the line for a bit. The training was pretty near exclusively on standard infantry tasks such as Lewis Gun and bombing and rifle grenade practice, as well as formations in attack and defence and whatnot. It seems that regardless of the way they were usually employed, pioneer battalions were always expected to be, first and foremost, infantry battalions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 Whoops sorry 1918 not 1919. I should learn to put more water with it.. Fred Still more water required, it's Aug not May Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred W Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 I think my glasses need cleaning as well. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 General Comment from the 8th Royal Scots in the European War 1914-1918(P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 Pioneers to the 51st Highland Division. "The Pioneers are the handy men of the Division,and do everything,from building the G.O.C's fireplace to staunching the enemy attacks,or leading the Division "over the top". George p.s. My Uncle Sjt G Souness was a Lewis Gunner in the Battalion and photograghs show him with the relevant sleeve badge.He was,however,a pre-war Territorial in the Machine Gun Company so possibly he earned his badge pre-War although on the Maxim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnie Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 Dycer If your Uncle is wearing the LG badge I think you can take it that it was awarded for being a skilled Lewis gunner. The Badge LG was not introduced until after 1916 around the same time as the Lewis Gun itself. The Badge for 'the' Machine Gun, the Vickers MMG was the 'MG' I'm not sure when this badge was introduced. Arnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 13 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2004 The Badge LG was not introduced until after 1916 around the same time as the Lewis Gun itself. Hmmm, surely the Lewis was being deployed as early as 1915 ?? Or was there a difference between BEF and CEF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fbdownes Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 Hi further to the forum my g/father was a reservist called up in 1914 and on his army record he has " Qualifications Signaller" . On the paragraph " Charactor according to Kings regs" of his discharge paper was "He was Machine- gun man". But on no part of his army record is there a record of him training in either. The early record of his from 1903- 1906 is very detailed but after 1914 the record only deals with wounds received and transfers back to England and the return back to France. fbdownes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 Peter I have examples of both the Small Book and discharge papers which show Lewis Gunner under qualifications. I'll scan 'em if you'd like to see... Best wishes, Grovetown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now