leigh Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 Hi, In looking through war diaries I keep coming accross Field General Courts Martials. Some get found not guilty, others get sentenced to '56 days' etc. Firstly, what is '56 days' likely to be? detention or labour? Secondly, after '56 days' would they have gone back to duty or been sent home? Thirdly... am I right in thinking that the information/records on FGCM's are confidential and not public records thus preventing me researching these instances? Fourthly, ifthe records of the actual FGCM's are either not in existance or classified, is there likely to be a higher level of diary, HQ for example, that might include info on these events. I am only reading the front line diaries at the moment. Many regards and appologies about the broadness of the question Leigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 Leigh This is very interesting. Are you coming across these FGCM in the general text of the War Diary or are they separately listed with findings and sentence? I have found only 1 reference to a field court martial in the diary I am looking at. It is in the general text and just says something like. A FGCM was held about ***soldier. No mention of the charge, outcome or sentence. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 I have found it. 6th Battalion N.F. August 5th 1916 '----During the day the Battalion had baths allocated to it at both Dranoutre & Locke. A F.G.C.M. was held upon Ptes ***** & B****. The Division received orders that it would be relieved by the 19th.' There may be more instances but could be easily overlooked because they are so low profile in pages of text. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leigh Posted 13 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2004 Kate, Yes, these are just in the general text as you describe. I have officers going off to take part in FGCM's and coming back. No information on who or what. I also have as you mention, ' Prv. Jones and Prv. Smith up for FGCM'. Later it might say nothing , other times 'Prv jones was found not guilty at FGCM' or 'Prv. jones sentanced to 56 days at FGCM'. nothing about where, why, what they did etc. I am assuming that they are members of the section who have been caught doing something they should not have been doing, falling assleep on duty or something. There also might have been some rule that offences not get listed. On a side note, a spy was found in the diary I am transcribing at the mo. They identified him and then discharged him. Not quite sure what that means Cheers Leigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 Leigh These are very tantalising entries in the War Diaries. It makes you feel like saying - If you aren't going to tell the full story, why did you put it in at all. I don't know whether the 56 days that you mention is a reference to one of the Field punishments. Other members of this forum know about Field Punishments and I also think there may be information on the main site. Will do a search. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leigh Posted 13 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2004 Ill post some more info when I get home, which is where the diary is. Leigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leigh Posted 13 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2004 This is the FGCM items I have been finding. ******* prv Mc******* Gnr McGinty remanded for trial by FGCM. Field Gen Court Martial held on Prv Mc******* and Gnr McGinty the former was released on being found “Not Guilty”. Gnr McGINTY sentenced to 56 days F.G.C.M. Section commanders report all quite and no guns fired. ******* The section commanders in the other sections reported all quiet. 3 prisoners remanded for trial by F.G.C.M. ******* Sgt PASSMOREs detachment relieved Capt YORKE at CUINCHY & detachments relieved at GIVENCHY. F.G.C.M. held at Indian Corps on Sgt KIRK. Sgt KIRK reduced by F.G.C.M. to Gunner. ******* I ahve had a bit of a poke on the Kew site and I think that some FGCM docs might be available but not quite sure what yet. Leigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 Leigh, if you're willing to slog you could try WO213. See this thread http://1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?showt...=14771&hl=court for some discussion of these. These are large ledgers in roughly date order which will give you name, unit, crime, sentence awarded and sentence confirmed. '56 days' sounds like one of the Field Punishments. Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leigh Posted 13 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2004 Thanks for that Jock, So If I get you right, I just order it and then start looking? Sounds fun I read on the other thread that this is the sort of reference that people would like to have. As it is a general document with no affiliation to any regiment etc it would seem to be a plan if when people looked at it they supplied this site with a few pages. over time it might build up into a useful referance with no great onus on anyone. I can hear you laughing now (you know how big they are ) Cheers Leigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 There are some amazing things stuffed in with some of the war Diaries, but unfortunately, we cannot rely on finding them where we expect them. Consider the following extracts from daile Battalion Orders attached to the War Diary of the 2nd Canadian Pioneer Battalion, which I found at the usual place, here: http://www.collectionscanada.ca/02/02015202_e.html Battalion Orders 1th May 1916. 555. COURT-MARTIAL No. 15154 Pte. A. O'Neill, 1st battalion South Wales Borderers, was tried by Field General Court Martial on the following charge:- "When on Active Service, deserting His Majesty's Service." The sentence of the Court was "To suffer death by being shot." The sentence was duly carried out at 5 a.m. on 30th April, 1916. 30 July, 1916. 820. COURT-MARTIAL No. 409059 Pnr. Gibson T.C., 2nd Canadian pioneer Bn., charged with:- " Neglect to the prejudice of good order and military discipline, in that he at Voormeseele at 4 p.m. 18.7.16., did carelessly discharge his rifle wounding himself in the left foot." Was tried by Court-Martial at BOESCHOPE, on the 23rd July, 1916, found "GUILTY" and sentenced to TWO (2) MONTHS FIELD PUNISHMENT #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 Thanks for that Jock, So If I get you right, I just order it and then start looking? I can hear you laughing now (you know how big they are ) Cheers Leigh Leigh, yeah - catalouge should give the dates for each volume (there are 20 odd), but I believe they are actually in the date details of trial and sentence reached London. Details for the Western Front were probably forwarded fairly promptly, but for other theatre you tend to get a job lot entered sometime after the event. Some get produced in the reading room, some upstairs in the map room. They are huge - eat your Wheetabix before heading to Kew. Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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