Guest fbdownes Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 Hi hoping for your help again. I have a trio clasp ect for a J T Marriott which are inscribed 8238 1st North'n R. On downloading his medal record I found he is also listed M F Police act l/cpl P/4517. His date of entry is 13th Aug so he must have been a regular. Has anyone any idea when they started making extra police detachments from infantry units. Also is there any separate records for military police. I cant get to Kew so I dont know if his army record survived. I know the 1st Batt was almost wiped out in 1916 (I think) was he a survivor of that and then became a M P. He survived the war so he was a lucky man. As luck would have it, on trying to trace his origins I find that there are a few J T Marriotts and guess who is the only one not listed with a christion name, my one. Would you have it any other way?. Many thanks fbdownes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 The Northampton volume of the National Roll lists a Cpl J Marriott of the 1st Battalion who was serving in Egypt at the outbreak of war, and fought at Mons. No regimental number is included unfortunately, and there is no mention of him serving with the Military Police. He was discharged in September 1919. What is M F? Could it be Mediterranean Force, and link to Egypt; or am I barking up the wrong tree as usual? The 1st Northamptonshires suffered heavily in 1914, and again at Aubers Ridge, alongside the 2nd Battalion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_davies Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 Would "M F Police" refer to "Military Foot Police" Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinH Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 The 'P' prefix on the service number indicates Military Foot Police or Military Mounted Police. Regards Gavin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fbdownes Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 Many thanks and Kate you have I think answered one question. There is only one J Marriott listed in the medal rolls for the Northamtonshires so he must be the one. Whether he was busted from cpl down to pte in Egypt or France no telling without his record, but its a help. Also a coincidence on the same medal roll printout there is J V Marriott who entered service as pte M F P 1031 and finished service act sgt Northumberland Fusilliers. No logic involved but I suppose they were not logical times fbdownes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 15 August , 2004 Share Posted 15 August , 2004 FB Here is the complete entry: MARRIOTT, J. 1st Northants. Regt. Already serving in Egypt when war boke out, he left for France, and arrived in time to fight in the Retreat from Mons. He was also in action at the battles of the Aisne, La Bassee, Ypres, Hill 60, the Somme and Cambrai, and was three times wounded - on the Aisne, at Hill 60 and on the Somme. He received his discharge in September 1919, and holds the Mons Star, and the General Service and Victory medals. 5 Todd's Lane, Northampton. Todd's Lane is long gone, but I will look him up in the Absent Voters List next time I am in the Local Studies Room, and report back, hopefully with a service number and details to your liking. Fingers crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fbdownes Posted 15 August , 2004 Share Posted 15 August , 2004 Many many thanks Kate for your help. I am still a little worried about him being in Egypt owing to his medal records listing his date of entry to France as 13th Aug 14 but I have been through the medal records again and there is only J T Marriott listed so he must be the one. It ties up with the medals I have. Anyway, any thing you can find out for me will be gratefully received. A christion name would be superb as I have only the initials J T. And there is a lot of J Marriott's listed on the 1901 census who could be likely candidates so that would be a great help. Again many thanks fb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 15 August , 2004 Share Posted 15 August , 2004 FB You could always try an address search on the 1901 census site http://www.1901census.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ They spell it Todds Lane (i.e. without the apostrophe) in the parish of St Sepulchre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fbdownes Posted 16 August , 2004 Share Posted 16 August , 2004 Hi kate, I tried Todds Lane on the census with no luck but found a John Marriott aged 15 living in 10 Cooper St which is round the corner.( Also funny enough my wifes G/mother's family lived at 17 Cooper St. The families would have known eachother) So I am pretty certain now that's him. He was old enough to be a regular before the war. The only drawback still is the Egypt thing. According to records the 2cd Batt were in Egypt in Aug and were not in the retreat from Mons. But our man was, so I presume at one time he served in Egypt but was in England to go out with the Expeditionary force. Look forward to hearing from you if anything else turns up fb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 16 August , 2004 Share Posted 16 August , 2004 Don't take the National Roll as gospel, especially where active service is mentioned. Do you mean to tell me your wife's family were / are Boroughsites? Kate (Semilong cum Boroughs, ex Spring Lane County Primary, and co-author In Living Memory - Life in the Boroughs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 17 August , 2004 Share Posted 17 August , 2004 Mixed news I'm afraid, FB (or may I call you F since we are becoming so well acqainted? ) The AVL for Autumn 1919 shows James Greenwood Marriott registered at 5 Todd's Lane. He was listed as Corporal 8508 with the 1st Northamptonshires. He was still there in 1929. The 1914/15 Register of Electors shows James William Middleton at that address. Lea's Directory for 1914 lists 15 J Marriotts (none in Todd's Lane) though if he was serving abroad he is unlikely to show up as a householder anyway. I have just entered 8508 into an MIC search, which answered with 7 pages, none of which included an entry for JG Marriott. Ho-humm... Have you tried the RMP Museum? Just for the record, 17 Cooper St. was home to the Wills family (no relation) in the AVL. Frederick was Private 021761 in the AOC; and George Private 94502 in 55th Co. RDC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fbdownes Posted 17 August , 2004 Share Posted 17 August , 2004 Hi Kate yes mixed news indeed. Never mind all will reveal its self in time. Although christened Frederick everyone calls me Brian so much for tracing me in the future. And it never clicked with your surname and I might have guessed you were from Northampton from the details you had. Sham the families are not connected have lots of photos that could have been shared. The wifes g/mother was Lizzie Wills born 1882 and we used to visit Cooper Street up till the 70s to see the family. They were all in the shoe trade except one who had a bakers shop. Getting back to soldier Marriott I had trouble finding him on the medal roll as the marriotts never came up with the "Ms" at first. And this week when I was checking him again I had to have 3 goes before his name showed so I will have another try. I came by these medals by chance, I was going to buy replicas for my g/father in the HLI and the same for my father in the world war 2 when I looked in a auction room in Stamford and in one lot was all the medals I wanted, wrong names of course, but they looked like they needed a good home so I bought them. I have only been researching my own family war records up to date but I must admit J T Marriott has been adopted and I have enjoyed researching him. So any other titbit you come across will be gratefully received, and if I do track him down for certain will be in touch. Take care and thanks again Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fbdownes Posted 19 August , 2004 Share Posted 19 August , 2004 Hi Kate, had a bit of time to spare so scrolled through a 1000 Marriots on the medal roll. Yes a THOUSAND and could find no trace cpl 8508 James Greenwood. Found a couple of John's in the Northant's but their army Nos were very high so they could be discounted. Very unusual, but par for the course. Take care Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 19 August , 2004 Share Posted 19 August , 2004 Brian I wonder if it is a transcription error in the AVL? A thousand Marriotts!! I admire your stickability. Perhaps the J Marriott already mentioned was living elsewhere in 1919. Maybe I should look at the addresses for the 15 Marriotts mentioned in Lea's Directory. BTW, just because we don't seem to be related doesn't mean to saay I wouldn't be interested in your family photos. Where was the bakery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fbdownes Posted 20 August , 2004 Share Posted 20 August , 2004 Hi Kate I have been thinking ( hard work) but is it possible that after the war he was transferred back to the Northant's from the M Police and was given a new number that related to him being an old regular. That being so it is possible that they are the same person. But without his army record will never be sure. Regarding the photo's will look them out. Have a couple in uniforms and the bakery the wife is not sure but am going to see her Mother tomorrow who is 94. She has trouble remembering last week but her memory for way back is superb. Will be in touch take care Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fbdownes Posted 22 August , 2004 Share Posted 22 August , 2004 Hi Kate did not get to see mum in law, we are now going tomorrow so the bakers is on hold. Have attached 2 photos the single is George Wills about 1918. The family group is reading left to right top Bill Arthur Edgar. Bottom row L to R are Les Bill Emm Sidney all Wills of course taken we think early 40s. Sorting through all the old photos came across a postcard posted in 1941 with a picture of the swimming pool and fire station in Northamton. Quite amusing the message on the back. ( Tell mr Cook not to leave any tripe on Friday). I know of your interest in the city so if it is any use will send it later. Have a couple more of the Wills in uniform 1914 era if wanted so will be in touch. take care Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fbdownes Posted 22 August , 2004 Share Posted 22 August , 2004 Hi Kate second Photo. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fbdownes Posted 23 August , 2004 Share Posted 23 August , 2004 Hi Kate the bakers was in Scarletwell Street. The shop was on the street front and the bakehouse at the back. Fred wills was running the bakery. Mum in law is sorry but she can't remember the number, then regaled us with tales of the Wills before the war. take care Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 24 August , 2004 Share Posted 24 August , 2004 Talk about old stomping grounds! Actually, I still have regular stomps in Scarletwell Street. In 1914 there were two bakers there, Jeffery at 51, and Rogers at 115. I wonder if your Mum in law remembers Dennis Verrechia of 25 Cooper St? He served with the RFA, and was sent to the Italian Front, where I imagine his Italian heritage came in handy. He lost a brother in 1917, who was drowned at sea while on his way to Egypt with the Warwicks. Would she like an illustrated map of The Boroughs? We prepared one as a companion piece to the book. I'll happily drop one round if she would. Shal'adder'goo Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fbdownes Posted 24 August , 2004 Share Posted 24 August , 2004 Hi Kate thanks for the offer for Mum in law but she is nearly blind and also has hearing problems so I don't think she could handle that. Nothing wrong with her voice though, for that she could have been world champ, she once phoned up when we were out and run the answering machine right out without a pause. Hope all well with you Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fbdownes Posted 25 August , 2004 Share Posted 25 August , 2004 Hi Kate found the photo of Fred Wills that I have been searching for. See attached. On the back is written Private Fred Wills 58th Coy. A O C depot Salonica Forces Salonica. Then lower down F wills again 12/3 Coy R A O C Base Workshop. Army of the Black Sea Constantinople. A bit difference in the appearance of him in the photo. Looks like a dandy officer, must have been a good posting. He is on the left by the way. Hope all is well with you Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 28 August , 2004 Share Posted 28 August , 2004 Ahh, Salonika! Nice photo. My grandfather was out there so I am interested in that front. Have you tried researching Fred Wills' war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fbdownes Posted 30 August , 2004 Share Posted 30 August , 2004 Hi Kate, no I have not researched Fred. I must confess that I only started my interest when my son got me the army record for my g/father in the HLI. I was amazed when contacting the surving children they had no idea even what regt he was in or what he had been through. Then I realised that I knew very little about my father. He was in N Africa Salerno and Anzio and I suppose when you have been through those situations you don't want to talk about it. Anyway on a better note I have attached another photo of Fred in a group. I presume they are all in the AOC . He looks a little younger but no idea of the date. They might tie up with the Salonica interest. Take care Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fbdownes Posted 30 August , 2004 Share Posted 30 August , 2004 Hi Kate nearly forgot about Dennis Verrechia. Mum in law says she can't remember the name but remembers that at the end of the street were Italions who made ice cream. My wife has just came in and read the forum and said she would love to see the information on the Boroughs, she used to go there a lot when she was young. Plus the fact she is interested in local history as well. Also she could read it and tell mum the bits of interest. Just had my knuckles rapped!!! as you might gather. Take good care Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fbdownes Posted 30 August , 2004 Share Posted 30 August , 2004 Hi Kate the wife has come in with the family history. Wants to know if your family tree extends back in Northamton to the early 1800s. She has a wedding cert for a William Wills married to a Mary Ann Jones in 1840 and Williams fathers name was Samson. They lived in Scarletwell Street but no number. Also her g/grandmother was born in Spring Lane. So she is wondering if there were 2 parallel Will's families living in the Boroughs area for all that time. Take care Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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