city battalion or pals battalion

[mcfc1923]

came across a small article on a web page which said that most of the city battalions (manchester) came from manchester corporation etc, but then there was a little snippet that said ''Don't confuse the city battalions with the pals battalion as they are completely different''.

Ther was no explanation, or if there was I must have missed it, and I can't for the life of me find the web page again.

Does he mean that the real pals battalion were the men who were already in the army before the war began?

many thanks

mcfc1923

[CROONAERT]

No. The article you read was wrong. The City Battalions were the "Pals" Battallions in Manchester.

The "City" title was official (ie. 16th (service) Battalion (1st City of Manchester) Manchester Regiment - the official title - was unnofficially known as the "1st Manchester Pals".), and "Pals" was an unofficial title. No "Pals" battalion, no matter where they came from, was titled "Pals" officially.

No "Pals" battalion existed before the war (although there were similar units within the TF), they were all part of "Kitchener's Army".

Dave.

[mcfc1923]

No. The article you read was wrong. The City Battalions were the "Pals" Battallions in Manchester.

No "Pals" battalion existed before the war (although there were similar units within the TF), they were all part of "Kitchener's Army".

Dave.

Dave

It was some guys own web page who was looking into his family history as far as I can remember.

perhaps he was talking about (just like you said) the similar units that existed within the TF before the war began.

well thanks for clearing it up dave, it had me worried for a while.

wish i could find that page again.

cheers Dave much appreciated

[PhilB]

Dave, what criteria do you think a battalion has to meet to qualify as a Pals` Battalion? Does it have to be a Kitchener Bn? Does it have to be raised in the town or city of its title? Does it have to be raised by the Mayor or local celebrity? Can it be restricted to certain trades, professions etc? Phil B

[John_Hartley]

Phil

"Pals" was always an unofficial name and you'll not find it in the records.

However, as a rule of thumb, most units called "Pals" were service battalions from industrial areas (he said, quickly taking cover to avoid the incoming flak). As a north westerner, I'll contend that the term was first commonly coined by Lord Derby when he recruited the Service Battalions for the Kings Liverpool Regiment. The intent was that friends/workmates/teammates might be recruited together and serve together. Within days the idea had moved down the Manchester Ship Canal and recruitment started for a Battalion of the Manchester Regiment "composed entirely of the clerks and warehousemen from the city". This was the 16th Bn that Dave mentions.

There is a view that Derby nicked the term from a meeting he had "down south" a day or two before.

Territorial Battalions were, of course, often comprised of men who were from the same neighbourhood or worked together, but the term is not usually applied to them (at least not in this part of the world).

John

[PhilB]

Thanks, John. The name "Pals" seems to have been in general usage (At least in Accrington!) by Sept 12 as the accompanying photo shows. What`s the first use of it that you`ve come across elsewhere?

Dave, Any idea where the recruiting station in Preston New Rd was?

Phil B

[John_Hartley]

Phil

I've never seen an early reference to Manchester's Pals. The earliest I can think of is in the City Battalions Roll of Honour published about April 1915. All the recruitment advertising refers to "City Battalions". As Mike Stedman points out in his Manchester Pals book, the pitch to the "clerks and warehousemen" was an overt appeal to the white collar worker.

Early recruitment into the 11th, 12th and 13th Service Battalions had been mainly from the working classess. Interestingly, these Bns are not called "Pals" although many of the recruits would have worked or played together.

John

[PhilB]

John,

It might be interesting if we asked the question "What`s the earliest evidence of the use of the name "Pals` Battalion" and see what comes up? Regards, Phil B

[SPotter]

I have to admit that coming from 'down south' the word "Pal" is not one I tend to use a great deal. Does the term have popular usage in any particular area? I recall one of my previous bosses who was from Huddersfield - to him, eveyone was 'Pal'. These terms were probably colloquial, as Grimsby of course had its' "Chums".

Regards

Steve

[harribobs]

mcfc

i suspect the article you saw was this one about HENRY PROCTER THEAKER

[18th (3rd City) Battalion which would indicate he at some time worked for Manchester City Corporation. Taking into account his age at the time of his death (19) and the fact he has a five digit number my best guess would be that he worked for the City Corporation until he was old enough to enlist at 18 years, this would give him an enlistment time of somewhere around mid or late 1915 joining one of the new City Battalions being or recently formed. He would no doubt have enlisted with other people he knew and worked with HOWEVER do not confuse these "City Battalions" with the "Pals Battalions" you may have read about they are a different thing altogether]

the information was supplied by peter fellowes, (who i'm sure has forgotten more than i know about WW1) he has since corrected the statement but the owner of the 'Theaker' site has chosen not to update his website

chris

[Bernard_Lewis]

The Swansea Battalion fits the generally accepted (!?) categorisation - formed after a Mayoral appeal in response to Lord K's call from the men of Swansea and its surrounds. Tended to be called 'Swansea's Own' by the local press of the time. One of its officers referred to it post war as being a 'town battalion'.

Bernard

[Chris_Baker]

The 17th King's (Liverpool Regiment) (1st City) has the probable distinction of being the first recognisable pals unit to be formed. It was established on 29 August 1914, by Lord Derby, and was based initially in the old watch factory at Prescot.