RSM Stevenson

[PhilB]

The Welsh Guards started their numbering system during the Great War and the RSM (Of course!) took the first number - 1! He finished with a DCM, MM & MSM. Is he possibly the only soldier whose medals bear the regimental number 1? Has anyone ever seen them?

Phil B

[Dave_59]

Well most soldiers shared their number...but not in all cases.

dave

[Terry Carter]

Pte W J Hunday 15th Royal Warwicks KIA 21/5/16 had a service number 1.

There are 8 soldiers on SDGW CD who have a 1 service number.

Probably a good few of the Kitchener New Army battalions started at No.1. The three Birmingham Battalions did and three men had the service number 1, of which Hunday was killed.

So perhaps not as unusual as you first thought.

Regards

Terry

[Tom Morgan]

Just as a sample, "Soldiers Died....." lists 8 men whose regimental number was "1".

There is one RQMS, one Sgt, 4 L/CPLs and 2 Privates.

Tom

Sorry, Terry, we must have been typing at the same time

Edited 19 August , 2004 by Tom Morgan

[Ed Matthews]

As a matter of interest, here is RSM Stevenson DCM MM, Welsh Guards (formerly of the Scots Guards) taken from a picture of the RSM's of the Guards Division in 1919:

[Ed Matthews]

The citation for his DCM (LG 11 March 1920) is as follows:

"For invaluable services during the period from the 27th September, 1918, till the 11th November, 1918. Throughout that time of successive heavy engagements he did extremely well, both in the work of organisation and training for attack and in the promoting and maintaining in all ranks of a keen fighting spirit."

I would imagine that there are other medals out there bearing the regimental number "1".

Rgds

Ed

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

The Welsh Guards started their numbering system during the Great War and the RSM (Of course!) took the first number - 1! He finished with a DCM, MM & MSM. Is he possibly the only soldier whose medals bear the regimental number 1?

He would however have probably been the only Welsh Guardsman with the Number "1",the best one I recall is a Bronze Maltese Labour Corps BWM to a Private Zammit,with the number "Z~1" on a GWM List

I suspect that many of the other Regiments's Men with the Number "1" were Territorial Force Men,as each TF Bn,started @ that Number.

[PhilB]

Thanks for the info, gents. Not quite as rare as I thought! And thanks for the photo - he certainly looks the part. Is it part of a bigger photo? Phil B

[Blackblue]

Every AIF infantry battalion (or nearly every unit for that matter) had a man whose number was 1. The numbers were issued when the battalions were formed and the number 1 allocated to the RSM. Have never seen medals to a number 1 though. Many of these men were commissioned very soon after.

Regards

Tim D

[Ed Matthews]

Hi Phil

Yes it is. The main photograph shows all of the RSM's of the Guards Division, taken in 1919. Certainly an impressive looking bunch of soldiers!

I'll try and post a copy of the main photograph tomorrow night.

Rgds

Ed

[Hugh Pattenden]

I came across the following recently:

No. 1, Private James Smith, 1st Battalion, Black Watch, KIA 31st October 1914. (CWGC database doesn't seem to give him a number at all though)

Even more unusual though is:

No. 3565 1/2(half), Havildar Mansur Khan, 58th Vaughan's Rifles (Frontier Force), died 30th August 1917.

Hope this is of interest,

Hugh

[Ed Matthews]

Phil

Another picture of RSM Stevenson, Welsh Guards for you (seated, left). This was taken in Cologne, 1919. The men stood behind him are Sgt. I Jones, Sgt. T. Williams and seated to his left, RQMS H. Pursey. The photograph is not brilliant I'm afraid (it's taken from the "Victory" edition of the Household Brigade Magazine, 1920).

[Muerrisch]

Probably a good few of the Kitchener New Army battalions started at No.1. The three Birmingham Battalions did and three men had the service number 1, of which Hunday was killed.

So perhaps not as unusual as you first thought.

Regards

Terry

That is fascinating! As Kitchener's men were in effect regulars on short service engagements, they SHOULD have numbered from the regular soldiers' sequence, typically about 8000 to 16000 as war broke out. Certainly 'my lot' ,RWF, were allocated blocks in the series, so that one can work out which battalion a soldier was posted to. I would be very interested to learn of other exeptions to the "rule".

A whole new ball game.

[Muerrisch]

[

I suspect that many of the other Regiments's Men with the Number "1" were Territorial Force Men,as each TF Bn,started @ that Number.

I think so, too, but do you know this for a fact? I have never been able to pin down the "starting from zero in 1908". One problem is the numbers in existence in July 1914 which imply amazing turn-over. Any hard evidence would be useful.

[PhilB]

LB:- I thought the same as you! A block for each Service Bn., so no duplication.

Ed:- Thanks for the great photos. Looks like he`s wearing an officer`s capbadge, while the WO2 has the OR`s one?

Phil B

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

[

I suspect that many of the other Regiments's Men with the Number "1" were Territorial Force Men,as each TF Bn,started @ that Number.

I think so, too, but do you know this for a fact? I have never been able to pin down the "starting from zero in 1908". One problem is the numbers in existence in July 1914 which imply amazing turn-over. Any hard evidence would be useful.

All Men of the 1st Cambridgeshire Regt TF,from 1908,started @ "1";by 1914 there had been some wastage due to age etc,of men who had crossed over from the old 3rd VB Suffolk Regt;[where numbers had been in the 2000s,but had been re~numbered in 1908]the 1914~1915 star Roll contains many men whose numbers were still in the "10s" & low "100s"[a Comprehensive study of their numbers shows that Numbers upto around 2300 were pre August 1914,numbers after that were from August onwards].

[jim_davies]

The 10th Lincolns started their numbering from "1" in 1914.

[Muerrisch]

For me, this thread is an eye-opener. Just goes to show you cannot generalise.