Height requirements in the French Army

[centurion]

See attached photo of a French front line barbers

Look at the man on the right with the white arm band. Am I right in thinking that he is very short? Even if the man on his right is very tall he still seems short compared to the other soldiers. Did the French have bantams?

[Duiker]

So as you may know is the length of the average Frenchman is not very large.

The man left is quite large especially for a Frenchman in that time.

Anton

[centurion]

So as you may know is the length of the average Frenchman is not very large.

The man left is quite large especially for a Frenchman in that time.

Anton

But short compared to all the other Frenchmen around him! Which if what you say is true would make him very short indeed.

[margaretdufay]

My sister in law's father fought as a Poilu in the Great War, and I'm sure he wasn't more than 5ft 3 or 5ft 4

mags

[Duiker]

I am a Dutchman who lives in France. My height is 173 centimeters.

Compared to the French people of my age, I am a giant.

My grandfather fought as Dutchman for France at Verdun.

He was a giant compared to the French. This man must be indeed relatively small.

Anton

[tipperary]

Compared to the rifle held by the man next to him it is either extra long or he is the french shorty longbottom.john

[John-B-Rooks]

If that's a Lebel rifle at 51 inches (130 cm) then your shorty can't be more than an inch or two above five feet bearing in mind he has one leg in a slight hollow. Is he a medic and therefore, not required to be quite as tall as a fighting man? Average height for a poilu was 5'4" compared with 5'8" for an American infantryman.

John.

ps This was good practice for Googling in schoolboy French. Merci bien.

[centurion]

If that's a Lebel rifle at 51 inches (130 cm) then your shorty can't be more than an inch or two above five feet bearing in mind he has one leg in a slight hollow. Is he a medic and therefore, not required to be quite as tall as a fighting man? Average height for a poilu was 5'4" compared with 5'8" for an American infantryman.

John.

ps This was good practice for Googling in schoolboy French. Merci bien.

Given that one foot is touching the rifle butt and you can see the other foot (ie it isn't in a hollow) then he does appear to be Danny Devito's French ancestor. Doe anyone know what the official minimum height was?

[healdav]

I have the service book of a French non-soldier. He was just 1 metre 46. I leave you to put that into old fashioned.

He is marked down as being in the auxiliary services, which I take to mean, 'we would be getting pretty desperate'. He doesn't seem to have ever been in the army except for his military service.

[John-B-Rooks]

Given that one foot is touching the rifle butt and you can see the other foot (ie it isn't in a hollow) then he does appear to be Danny Devito's French ancestor. Doe anyone know what the official minimum height was?

Try drawing a couple of lines through the soles of their boots. Lebel is indeed on a level with Danny's left boot (left knee slightly flexed) but his right boot is an inch or two lower and at the same level as lanky chap (Tommy Cooper?). Would you prefer 'slight unevenness of ground' to 'slight hollow'? The slightness is perhaps only marginal but for someone of Danny's height 'une pouce est une pouce' (an inch is an inch). I'm not trying to be difficult but it does make a small difference to his perceived height.

1 metre 46 equates to about 4 feet/pieds 10 inches/pouces.

John

[Ron Clifton]

Hello all

The British General Staff's Handbook of the French Army 1914 says that the minimum height for French infantrymen and artillerymen was five feet three inches. Men below that height could be enlisted with special authorisation but, in the case of those less than five feet and half an inch, only if they had a strong physique and good marching skills.

I don't know whether the height limit was further lowered during the war, but as the French, like the Germans, practised conscription and needed to take around 50% of the men in each year group, the height limit would probably have been relaxed to allow enough men to join the colours each year, and hence would depend on the physical size of the men in that age group.

Ron

[ian.sumner]

Ron is correct. The lists of men potentially available for service was sent to the Ministry towards the end of each year. The Ministry then allocated to each recruitment office a quota for each arm of service. Recruitment offices would fill these vacancies based on the aptitude of the recruits themselves, and on any notes taken when the men presented themselves at the conseil de révision (similar to a conscription tribunal) in the early summer of the following year.

Some arms of service did specify a minimum height:

Cavalry

Cuirassiers: 1m 70 (5' 7")

Dragoons: 1m 64 (5' 4")

Chasseurs d'Afrique: 1m 59 (5' 2")

Chasseurs à cheval and hussars: 1m 59

Artillery

5/10 of the intake: 1m 66 (5' 5")

3/10 of the intake: 1m 64

2/10 of the intake: 1m 60 (5' 3")

Fortress artillery: 1m 66

Engineers: 1m 66

Transport (train d'équipages)

5/10 of the intake: 1m 65

3/10 of the intake: 1m 63

2/10 of the intake: 1m 60

Until 1901, the minimum height for infantry had been set at 1m 54 (5' 1/2"), but this was replaced by the more flexible procedure of quotas. Recruits could get their call up postponed because of poor physical condition, and would be recalled in subsequent years to see if that had changed for the better, in which case they were called up. Rather than height alone, more attention had to be paid to the recruit's all round physical attributes - for the infantry, he should be characterised by muscular strength, a well-formed chest, a lively and intelligent appearance, supple limbs and perfectly healthy feet. Recruitment offices were to always bear in mind that a strong constitution and an ability to march were the essential requisites of a good infantryman. Men with a robust constitution and experience of walking in the mountains were to be sent to the chasseurs alpins no matter what their height.

All of this meant that the tallest men, who had experience of working with horses went into the heavy cavalry; those who had some ability with machinery went instead to the engineers or artillery; shorter men with similar abilities went into the light cavalry, and so on, until the quotas for these arms of service were filled up, any surplus was directed to the infantry. Men without any particular ability, of good physique, went to the infantry; those of poorer physique, but still suitable for service, would end up in, say, the Administration service (a combination of some of the functions of the AOC and a corps of clerks).

Or at least, that was the procedure in peace time. The requirements for each arm of service could be changed easily bu the Ministry, and as the war progressed, men were increasingly being directed to the infantry, rather than, say, the cavalry. It didn't always work efficiently, though. To take one example, Maxime Lenoir had been a nationally-known aviator before the war, and expected to join the Aviation Service; when he was recalled to the colours in 1914 he was directed to ... the cavalry (so much for the recruit's aptitudes!).

Ian

[ian.sumner]

As a footnote to the height question, I have just found a table in the 1921 Annuaire Statistique that gives the heights of the young men of the Class of 1918 when they registered for conscription. The average height of all men of the Class is 1m 66 (5' 5"). See http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5500749v/f90.image and the following page http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5500749v/f91.image

Ian