High Ranks being captured

[steve fuller]

Just seen on the superb POW database here that Lt Colnel Earle (of the Grenadier Guards no less) was a POW. Id imagine that was quite a 'prize' to claim?

Other than asking how a Lt Colnel of the Guards got himself snared, I wandered if it happened much?

Congratulations on the Database guys / gals who did it. Excellent idea and result.

[Terry]

At Mont Sorel on 2 June,1916, several units of the newly arrived 3rd Canadian Division was shattered by a series of German mines followed by a major attack.

At the time the divisional commander, Maj.Gen.M.S.Mercer, and one of the brigade commanders, Brig.Gen.Victor Williams were visiting the forward positions. Mercer was killed and the badly wounded Williams captured. He was, I think, the highest ranking Canadian to become a POW.

[Guest AmericanDoughboy]

Steve,

There is an interesting film that is well worth a watch if you can find it on television one day entitled: "The Girl and the General". The story is about an Italian Soldier and a peasant girl who capture an Austrian General and struggle to keep their eyes on him so that he doesn't escape as they make their way back to the front lines for their ₤2,000 (Lira).

-Doughboy

[Chris_Baker]

According to the "List of British Officers taken prisoner Aug 1914 - Nov 1918"

Brig-Gen C. D. Bruce, 27th Brigade, Hulluch Quarries 26 Sept 1915

Brig-Gen H. Ravenshaw, General Staff, 4 Dec 1917

Brig-Gen V. Bailey, 142nd Brigade, 23 Mar 1918

Brig-Gen F. Dawson, South African att HQ, 24 Mar 1918

Brig-Gen E. Bellingham, 118th Brigade, 28 Mar 1918

Brig-Gen J. Dick Cunyngham, 152nd Brigade, 12 Apr 1918

Brig-Gen H. Rees, 50th Division, 27 May 1918

Brig-Gen C. Bradley, 1916

I can't see any more senior than those.

[Terry Denham]

Maj-Gen Townsend at Kut must qualify as a high ranker!

[Michael Lowrey]

While not quite as high ranking, a notable capture happened on December 4, 1915. The German submarine U 33, while pretending to be Austrian, stopped the Greek steamer Spetse. The ship was soon free to go, but not before two British army officers were taken on board the submarine: Lieutenant Colonel H D Napier, the Military Attaché in Athens, and Captain S Wilson, a King's messinger and Member of Parliment. To make matters worse, most of the officer's papers were captured as well.

best wishes,

Michael

[steve fuller]

Was reading about Gen Townsend and his Kut adventure last night funnily enough.

So, theres a few cases, but doesnt look 'too many' considering the scale of casualties and captured in WW1 I suppose. And most of them on Chris's list seem to be the Op Michael period (now Ive said that, Ill bet theyre nothing to do with the 3rd & 5th Army's ).

Brig-Gen V. Bailey, 142nd Brigade, 23 Mar 1918; what was his story please?

Thanks all

Steve

[Bernard_Lewis]

And Brig-Gen H.C.Rees, formerly GSO2 of the 38th (Welsh) Division was taken to meet the Kaiser. On repatriation he suffered some criticism for being polite in the conversation!

Bernard

[Ed Matthews]

Other than asking how a Lt Colnel of the Guards got himself snared, I wandered if it happened much?

Lieut.Col. M. Earle DSO (1st Bn. Grenadier Guards) was taken prisoner on 29 October 1914 during 1st Ypres, during which the 1st Bn. was reduced from over a 1,000 men at the beginning of the month to little more than a hundred commanded by a Captain. The following is taken from the regimental history:

Lieut. Col. Earle was severely wounded during the engagement, and, while dressing his wounds, Lieutenant Butt, RAMC, was shot through the head. Colonel Earle was afterwards reported to be lying in a house some two hundred yards in rear of the Battalion headquarters dug-out. Several men volunteered to carry him back, but as the enemy were within a couple of hundred yards of the house this would have meant certain death, not only for the stretcher-bearers but for Colonel Earle himself.

Rgds

Ed

[PhilB]

There`s also:- Maj Gen W.S.Delamain, 16 Brig, 6 Ind Div 29/4/16

Brig Gen U.W.Evans, 17 Brig 6 Ind Div 29/4/16

Brig Gen H.D.Grier, CRA 6 Ind Div 29/4/16

Brig Gen W.G.Hamilton, 18 Brig 6 Ind Div 29/4/16

Maj Gen Sir C.J.Melliss, 30 Brig 6 Ind Div 29/4/16

Brig Gen V.A.S Williams, 8 Can Brig 3 Can Div 2/6/16

Phil B

[steve fuller]

And Brig-Gen H.C.Rees, formerly GSO2 of the 38th (Welsh) Division was taken to meet the Kaiser. On repatriation he suffered some criticism for being polite in the conversation!

Bernard

That was a bit harsh wasnt it?!! Well, you would be polite if meeting the Kaiser!

Phil B; are all the Indian ones from Egypt /Palestine, or spread around?

Ed; might have known you'd know mate! Thanks, curiosity satisfied!

Cheers all

Steve

[Ed Matthews]

29 April 1916 was the surrender of the Kut garrison.

Rgds

Ed

[Ed Matthews]

Missed the Canadian one.....this corresponds to the capture of Mount Sorrel from the 3rd Canadian Division by the Germans on 2 June 1916. The position was retaken, I hasten to add, just over ten days later.

Perhaps one of the PALS with an interest in the CEF could elaborate more on the capture of Brig.Gen. Williams?

RGds

Ed

[PhilB]

"On the morning of 2/6/16 Brig Gen Williams went from his HQ, which was on the western edge of Zillebeke Lake, with Maj Gen Mercer to the front line near Mt Sorrel. Whilst they were there, the trenches were suddenly subjected to a tremendous bombardment. Williams was badly wounded in the face and was senseless when the enemy attacked at abou 1pm. He was captured and removed to Menin, a prisoner."

Mercer was wounded in the same bombardment and subsequently killed by a splinter from a British shell. The Germans had planned to bombard later that day but seem to have had intelligence of the inspection by the generals and brought the shelling forward. (from "Bloody Red Tabs") Phil B

[Landsturm]

So far only British units have been mentioned... How about German or French?

In Verdun, actually on the left bank of meuse in the Mort-Homme area, on Monday 20th March, the German attack was launched from the West at the frontline Malancourt-Avocourt. At Avocourt they moved on quickly to the Bois d'Avocourt where the French 29th division was located, which was mostly destroyed. It is even believed that treason was committed on French side; defectors were supposed to have given away the French positions to the Germans. More than 3000 men were made prisoners of war, among them were a brigadier general and two regimental commanders. In France this defeat was considered a national. After these events all battles concentrated around the Bois d'Avocourt.

[Guest woodyudet]

General Leman - Belgian commander of Liege garrison was captured in August 1914. Presumably senior French officers were captured @ Maubeuge also.

[priv]

A little off the main topic, but General Gott who was killed in a mysterious and often debated plane crash in the Western Desert on his way to take up command of the 8th Army was a POW in WW1. It was after his death that Monty took over command of the 8th Army.

He was always referred to by his nickname of "Strafer" Gott - I understand this means punishment in German and was a result of his days as a POW.

The story behind the "Strafer" comes from the fact that his German captors could not come to terms with the perceived cheek of this officer and their total disbelief when they continually asked his name he replied Gott, and as a result he was continually punished hence the nickname. He, as a loyal officer of His Majesties armed forces would only divulge his name, and rank - and here the problem arose - his surname Gott means God in German !!

A classic tale - though not a fairy story/myth since I was told it by his Daughter and Grandaughter.

Amusing heh, even if a little off topic.

[Landsturm]

According to my understanding there were men who later became celebrities and high ranking officers in other wars. For example, French minister of war, Charles de Gaulle served as junior officer near Douaumont where he was wounded and captured in March 1916. As POW he made five attempts to escape before being released after the armistice. But this is little off-topic.