George Doe - Royal Artillery

[Guest dibob]

Hi, I have just joined this site & am hoping to find out something about my Grandads brother, George Doe. I have it on very good authority from family members that he died in 1916 in France, possibly at the Somme. I have checked the CWGC website where there are a few George Does, but not the right parents.

My George was born in Kensington, London in 1896 to Thomas Joseph Edward & Ada Lily Doe nee Buckingham.

If anyone can point me in the right direction, I would be very grateful, it seems a shame that no-one knows where he might be lying, especially as his mother died soon after apparently of a broken heart.

Di

[chris.wight]

Hi Di, welcome to the Forum.

I looked throught the on-line Medal Index Cards which list three men:

George Doe, Royal Field Artillery, 180752, Gunner

Devonshire Regiment, 58796, Gunner

Labour Corps, 103938, Gunner

George Doe, Royal Field Artillery, 52489, Gunner

The third man's card gives only his initials. :

E.G. Doe, Royal Horse & Royal Field Artillery, 33135, no rank given

The "D"s are only at 85% availability at present so there could be more.

[Guest dibob]

Chris,

Thanks very much, sorry to sound so dim but not too knowledgable of the military, the first George Doe you found has three different regiments? Is that right?

The second looks promising, but so does the third except for the initials - I say this as I know his brother, my grandad rode the horses that pulled the guns & I assume that was the same as the third example.

Thanks again, Di

[linge]

Di

I replied directly by email but don't know if you received it.

Are you sure he was RFA ?

Could your George Doe be George Henry Doe CGM of 188th Bde (MGC), RNVR ?

Although in the Naval division he died on the Somme (Battle of the Ancre) on 13th Nov 1916 and is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial. CWGC don't have age or next of kin info.

1901 Census I believe has your George Doe Aged 6, born Kensington, living Kensington.

Free BMD has a Henry George Doe's birth registered in the June Qtr 1894 in Kensington.

I wondered if perhaps this was your George and if he was commonly known by his his second christian then maybe his name had been changed to George Henry on enlistment ?

[chris.wight]

Di, no need to feel dim at all. It takes a while to understand all this and when you think you do, you find something that tells you don't.

Yes, the first man was with three different units. He started off with the artillery then went to an infantry unit - I can't explain why his rank with the Devonshires is listed as Gunner, an error perhaps. He finally ended up in the Labour Corps. Men who had suffered injuries sufficient to degrade their fitness status but still able enough to perform labour were transferred here.

Even though the third man's rank isn't listed, he could have performed the duty that your Grandfather did.

The part that is confusing is trying to find out why he is not listed on the CWGC. Possibly someone with a copy of "Soldiers Died in the Great War" could see if he is listed there.

You could also download the MICs of the men I listed. It will cost you 3.50 to do so but the card will have listed a date of death if there is one. Just in case you aren't familiar with the MICs, this is the link.

[Guest dibob]

linge

Thanks for the reply, yes I think the George Doe on the 1901 census is mine, haven't seen anything that gives Henry as another name, I think I might have to get that birth cert you have found on bmd, I think its the only way of checking the parents, must have missed that one, thanks.

It was thought he was Royal Artillery because his elder brother, Thomas, joined them, George joined up by lying about his age, his brother tried to get him thrown out but got shipped over to France so George stayed in.

I have also found out that he is mentioned on the roll of honour inside Kensington Town Hall, so I will have to make a visit next time I get up to London, which isn't often.

Thanks again

Di

(sorry didn't see your email)

[Guest dibob]

Thanks Chris,

I was wondering what MICs were, have looked at the link, very interesting, will download the records & hopefully come up with some useful info.

Can I be really cheeky & pick your brains some more, the examples didn't really show much, do you know if they would show when & where a soldier was killed?

Thanks so much

Di

[chris.wight]

Sure Di, ask away! I'm far from being a MIC but I'll help if I can.

Have you downloaded the cards? If the man was killed in action or died of wounds it would say so on the card, also if he survived it will give his demobilisation date. It will also give the theatre he served in, usually. So from seeing the card you will have a better idea which may be your man.

This section on the MIC gives a very good explanation, link.

[linge]

Hi Di

The reason I queried if you were sure George was in the Royal Artillery was that I checked Soldiers Died in the Great War (SDGW) for Doe's in the RFA and RGA and got only 3 being Frank Shell Doe, Harry Doe, and Sidney Walter Doe all died in 1917. None of them appeared to be right.

I think that Chris's "George Does" on the Medal Index Cards (MIC) survived the war as I don't think they appear in SDGW or CWGC although I accept both SDGW and CWGC are not always right.

Pam

[Guest dibob]

Chris,

I think Pam may be right, I have checked out CWGC for all Does, checking anyone with either George or Henry to no avail. The medal cards do not give any indication that those particular George Does died in the war.

Starting to think maybe my George Doe disappeared into the ether!!

Pam,

The Soldiers that died in the Great War, is that a searchable website or a CD.

I have just ordered the birth cert that you found on freebmd to see if he has the right parents.

Thank you so much for all your help, I would have been stumbling in the dark with all this otherwise.

Di

[chris.wight]

Di, it comes in book form and CD-ROM.

One possiblity is he enlisted under an alias to avoid having his real age discovered.

[linge]

Di

Soldiers Died in the Great War is a searchable CD. It gives place of birth, enlistment and residence but not in all cases and as with all these things they are sometimes inconsistent with other information. Unfortunately it relates as it says only to soldiers so I couldn't find similar information on George Henry Doe of the RNVR. You don't know if there was a family story of winning a gallantry medal do you? George Henry Doe of RNVR was awarded the Conspicuous Gallantry Medal in 1915 when he was part of Howe Battalion, Royal Naval Division.

One of the other members maybe able to help you on how to find information on men of the Naval Division which may help to see if the above could be your George Doe.

Pam

[Guest dibob]

Thanks both,

An alias might be a possibility, but my uncle reckons he is listed on the memorial at Kensington Town Hall where he used to go to dances but cannot remember what other information is there, so I think a trip to London is in order.

I will have to make enquiries regarding medals, but nothing mentioned so far.

Thanks again

Di

[chris.wight]

Di, I agree with Pam's suggestion - start another thread asking for RND experts' help with any background information on George Henry Doe. It might turn up something.