David Filsell Posted 14 February , 2013 Share Posted 14 February , 2013 How does factually light strike you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 14 February , 2013 Share Posted 14 February , 2013 If you are referring to Pity of War I think we will find ourselves generally in agreement. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 14 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2013 This is becoming an interesting thread, not much to do with the subject, but that is par for the course. I wonder if instead of gaining nominal ranks according to the number of posts we should be be ranked according to our learning. Of course this is a matter of opinion; the writers and the readers will probably be quite different. For my self, I have no qualification in history (I seem to recall passing school certificate in history, but I am sure there was no 'modern, content, I became interested in WW1 some 4 or 5 years ago when I retired for the voluntary work I did after stopping being paid, and, I suppose I have read 50 or so books on WW1. I wonder if I could claim a commission or am only a trained soldier? Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard_Lewis Posted 14 February , 2013 Share Posted 14 February , 2013 Old Tom - as a start I'd try offering the Mods a bribe. Get the cash right and you'll be polishing your FM's baton in no time... Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 14 February , 2013 Share Posted 14 February , 2013 Some years ago I wrote to Niall Ferguson about his words of effusive praise cited on the cover of the hardback edition of Michael Hofmann's dire 'new' translation of Ernst Jünger's 'Storm of Steel', and he replied, in an e-mail that I still have somewhere, saying that he hadn't actually read the whole book. I started reading 'The Pity of War', but never managed to finish it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 14 February , 2013 Share Posted 14 February , 2013 Seeing Sir Max Hastings refer to anyone as a sensationalist historian makes me think about pots and kettles. I've never read anything by Ferguson, but Hastings ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 15 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 15 February , 2013 Bernard, I'm not sure if I made the point I had in mind. I thought that those who are critical of authors should be careful that they are not living in glass houses, or even should justify their criticisms. As for promotion you are surely not suggesting that one could overtake Centurion! Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 15 February , 2013 Share Posted 15 February , 2013 Siege Gunner, Hoffman's is a dire translation. I spoke to him about it and he admitted that his military knowledge was limited, and it shows. The original translation is much the better. And what you say about Ferguson seems typical of the man. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Tucker Posted 16 February , 2013 Share Posted 16 February , 2013 The reason why Ferguson is so annoying was demonstrated once again this week in his article on Gove's history curriculum (yesterday's Guardian). He says he knows how bad the current curriculum is because he had three children go through the system, he had regularly visited schools and talked to History teachers (does not state whether private or state or were the teachers at one Prince Charles nose-poking conferences) but here is the revealing bit. He cites the comments on the Gove stuff by Richard Evans of Cambridge and David Priestland of Oxford (also says 'living in a dreaming Oxonian spire' so what does that make Harvard?) and then says "and because (unlike Evans and Priestland, authors of rather dry works on, respectively, Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia) I have written and presented popular history". Last bit says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 16 February , 2013 Share Posted 16 February , 2013 But clearly not popular to most who have commented on the thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 16 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 16 February , 2013 I would not of thought that the subject of this thread could be called popular history, but I am not an historian, nor do I read the Guardian. Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil andrade Posted 16 February , 2013 Share Posted 16 February , 2013 also says 'living in a dreaming Oxonian spire' It was the "dreaming Oxonian spire " of Jesus College that gave Ferguson his debut. Phil (PJA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxi Posted 16 February , 2013 Share Posted 16 February , 2013 I believe that The Pity of War 14-18 was written in five months with the aid of research assistants. Not a great recommendation as far as I am concerned. Still what do I know as I bought his 'War of the World' book and then got the DVD of the TV series of the same title so I can blagg that I read the boring pile of cack. Maxi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 16 February , 2013 Share Posted 16 February , 2013 Would "populist" be a better word than "popular"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 16 February , 2013 Share Posted 16 February , 2013 I would not of thought that the subject of this thread could be called popular history, but I am not an historian, nor do I read the Guardian. Old Tom Perhaps not, but you seem well qualified to write for it - "I would not of thought . . . . " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazelclark Posted 16 February , 2013 Share Posted 16 February , 2013 I believe that The Pity of War 14-18 was written in five months with the aid of research assistants. Not a great recommendation as far as I am concerned. Still what do I know as I bought his 'War of the World' book and then got the DVD of the TV series of the same title so I can blagg that I read the boring pile of cack. Maxi Don't feel badly. My son likes Niall Ferguson's view of history and bought me his "War of the Worlds" a couple of years ago. I also read it but didn't enjoy it. I honestly can't remember why! Hazel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 17 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 17 February , 2013 Stoppage Drill, Thanks, I'm not often complimented on my prose, if that was what you meant. Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyne Posted 17 February , 2013 Share Posted 17 February , 2013 I believe that The Pity of War 14-18 was written in five months with the aid of research assistants. Maxi Unfortunately, that is how a lot of scientific books are written... if you're a professor and you have a class of students, it's easy to put the to work and then use it for your own. Believe me, I'm speaking from experience!! Happens in all universities!! MM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxi Posted 17 February , 2013 Share Posted 17 February , 2013 MM I appreciate your comment. It is just that Ferguson is such a smug so and so and so good looking and rich and...........SMUG! I will take my tablets and retire to my cell Maxi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 17 March , 2013 Author Share Posted 17 March , 2013 I have now read the greater part of this book which provoked a wide range of sometimes adverse comment when I started this thread. The Penguin edition runs to over 450 pages of quite small type and over 100 pages of notes and bibliography. I did not find it an easy read and am inclined to agree with post 63 that it was written by a group. The author has adopted an unusual approach and has examined in detail aspects of society, commerce and politics not dealt with or barely mentioned in the other books on WW1 which I have read. The book concludes by providing responses to a series of questions some of which I think are worth citing, in my words, albeit briefly to give a flavour of the work: The war was not inevitable and an entente between Britain and Germany did not emerge because Germany did not pose a threat to the Empire. Germany went to war out of a sense of weakness Britain went to war because of secret planning dating back to 1905 which was based on the assumption that German intentions were Napoleonic The Entente powers had great economic advantage over the Central powers, but the Central powers were more successful in killing the enemy. The last sentence of the book is the opinion that the war was the greatest error of modern history. I find myself in agreement with the views expressed at posts 3, 10 and 36 and while I did not enjoy reading the book it is thought provoking and deserves a wider audience. Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazelclark Posted 17 March , 2013 Share Posted 17 March , 2013 I have now read the greater part of this book which provoked a wide range of sometimes adverse comment when I started this thread. The Penguin edition runs to over 450 pages of quite small type and over 100 pages of notes and bibliography. I did not find it an easy read and am inclined to agree with post 63 that it was written by a group. The author has adopted an unusual approach and has examined in detail aspects of society, commerce and politics not dealt with or barely mentioned in the other books on WW1 which I have read. The book concludes by providing responses to a series of questions some of which I think are worth citing, in my words, albeit briefly to give a flavour of the work: The war was not inevitable and an entente between Britain and Germany did not emerge because Germany did not pose a threat to the Empire. Germany went to war out of a sense of weakness Britain went to war because of secret planning dating back to 1905 which was based on the assumption that German intentions were Napoleonic The Entente powers had great economic advantage over the Central powers, but the Central powers were more successful in killing the enemy. The last sentence of the book is the opinion that the war was the greatest error of modern history. I find myself in agreement with the views expressed at posts 3, 10 and 36 and while I did not enjoy reading the book it is thought provoking and deserves a wider audience. Old Tom You have said it really well. I just find that there are times when I can read that sort of book and times when I can't be bothered. I don't know anything about his statistics, but for me a book can be controversial but also readable. I didn't like reading that one. Hazel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawley Jockey Posted 17 March , 2013 Share Posted 17 March , 2013 I read the book when it was first published and to be honest I was frustrated, bored, angry, wishing I hadn't bothered all at the same time, which I suppose is quite a feat to feel all these at one go and a comment on Mr Ferguson's writing style and research methods Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth505 Posted 17 March , 2013 Share Posted 17 March , 2013 I find myself in agreement with the views expressed at posts 3, 10 and 36 and while I did not enjoy reading the book it is thought provoking and deserves a wider audience.Old Tom Seems to be that 'it's worth having on the shelf' and 'it opens a can or worms.' Not stirring recommendations. I find myself thinking the book is the product of a committee and it tries too hard to take a radical position. Demonstrating the the Central Powers were much more efficient in their war efforts then the Allies apparently doesn't help advance the questions that the larger academic community has tried to answer. What were the causes and what are the effects? Was the war inevitable seems like the wrong path. Proving German efficiency while interesting from the 'can of worms' angle doesn't seem to help much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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