CROONAERT Posted 3 September , 2004 Share Posted 3 September , 2004 I'm not 100% certain that this is Great War, but it could be. A rank or unit designation from a British post September 1916 ID Tag.... does anyone have any idea what the initials "S.T.A.N.S." could signify? I feel it might be Royal Navy, but I'm unsure. Thanks, Dave. (Someone has suggested it could be "Scottish Territorial Auxilliary Nursing Service". Did this exist?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 4 September , 2004 Share Posted 4 September , 2004 Dave, Re the nursing service pretty sure Jim Strawbridge would know. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 4 September , 2004 Cheers, Bob. Someone has also suggested "Scottish Territorial Army Nursing Service". I ,personally, don't think it's this one, but the Nursing Service comes up again. Dave. (PS. There is a chance (and looking at the tag, I think it might be a strong chance) that it's actually post 1920, possibly WW2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 4 September , 2004 There is a chance (and looking at the tag, I think it might be a strong chance) that it's actually post 1920, possibly WW2 Might be easier if I post a scan... The aforementioned tag... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Strawbridge Posted 6 September , 2004 Share Posted 6 September , 2004 T.A.N.S. is the normal abbreviation for the Territorial Army Nursing Service. In view of the id showing Church of Scotland I would guess that Scottish Territorial Army Nursing Service as being correct although I have never heard of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 6 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 6 September , 2004 Thanks Jim. Does the service number look right for a Nursing Service number? It looks suspiciously R.N. to me (but I'm totally clueless on the Nursing service). I take it that my assumption that it's post WW1 is correct then? Cheers, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Strawbridge Posted 9 September , 2004 Share Posted 9 September , 2004 You are right about the service number not tieing up with nurses. But then, you do have an oddity all round. At one time I thought that it might be Canadian which would link with the Church of Scotland in view of the high number of emigrants that went there (Seskatchewa Territories and Nova Scotia - I think not). Williamson, under the prefix "P" gives Corps of Military Police, Rifle Brigade, Royal Navy, South Africa Pay Corps and Palestine. But of course these are only WW1 prefixes and the length of the number suggests perhaps a later period. I have a lot of WW1 navy medals in my collection. The highest without a prefix is 365860. I do not have a single navy medal with a P prefix whether RN, RNR or RNVR. If Portsmouth or Plymouth the PO. or PLY. would almost certainly been applied. I don't think that it is CofMP, South African or Palestine I have not seen WW1 Rifle Brigade service numbers go as high as yours. I am therefore strongly leaning towards pre/during WW2. Perhaps someone on this list has some dog tags of the period that they could compare it with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 9 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 9 September , 2004 Perhaps someone on this list has some dog tags of the period that they could compare it with. Hi Jim. Yeah. Me!!! (that's why I'm so confused!) (The "P" prefix in the navy signifies "Portsmouth" in the Royal Fleet Reserve, by the way). WW1 service numbers can go as high as this, but not in the British Army. I've only encountered it for post 1917 service Canadians. To be honest, I'm not convinced that the final digit of the number is actually part of the number at all. It could be a letter "I" on the end of the mystery initials (making it "S.T.A.N.S.I.", that I'm actually looking for - the service number being "P.209777" which brings it back into British Great War territory). However, the tag itself (regardless of what is on it) is almost definately post 1930 ,I feel. Thanks for your answers, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 9 September , 2004 Share Posted 9 September , 2004 Dave, if 'TA' is Territorial Army then I think this makes it post-WW1. Baptie is, I believe, a Borders surname - and not that common. Looking at the 1901 census for England and Wales there are only two M Bapites, both female. One, Mary, is aged 40 and probably a non-starter - the second, Marjorie, is aged 5 in 1901. You may like to try the online Scots census and births, marraiges and deaths at http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ for an M P Baptie of either sex. This will cost you £6. Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 9 September , 2004 Share Posted 9 September , 2004 Been following this thread with interest - there is no way this is an RN number. I dont have an RN 'dog tag' in my collection to illustrate, but I've see a couple & they dont look like this. They also say R.N. I doubt its a CEF tag either. I am absolutely sure the CEF tags were impressed with the Batt'n or Corps (ie: CE, CASC etc) be interesting to have the mystery solved! Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 9 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 9 September , 2004 I dont have an RN 'dog tag' in my collection to illustrate, but I've see a couple & they dont look like this. They also say R.N. I doubt its a CEF tag either. I am absolutely sure the CEF tags were impressed with the Batt'n or Corps (ie: CE, CASC etc) Bryan. I agree with you on the Canadian part (I've only got Canadian infantry bns in my collection, but they all say "canadian" in some form or other somewhere from both world wars). However, none of my (WW1) RN tags actually have the initials "R.N" stamped on them anywhere (mind you, they are mainly 1906 pattern tags), but they all have the , obviously naval, rank initial ("C.P.O.", "E.R.A.", etc.). I don't have any post WW1 RN tags, but I suspect you're correct there (though my cousins from 1982 doesn't). Was the Royal Fleet Reserve actually classified as the Royal Navy though? (I'm "all at sea" when it comes to Naval matters (pardon the pun!) ). -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for your answer Jock, but, to be honest, I've never had much faith in the 1901 census as practically everyone (70%) I've ever researched is missing from it! I'd like to see the Scottish census to see if anything turns up, though, so I might give it a go. Cheers, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 10 September , 2004 Share Posted 10 September , 2004 Hi Dave, I must say I dont really know about the RN part on the dog tags - as I dont have one in my collection, I just never got one with any medals I have, but I know I've seen a couple a few yrs back. I must get one next time I see one at a show just to have an example. The WWI RN numbers were generally 6 figure numbers; ie: 214235, 342123, & some lower numbers for those entered prior to Turn of C; ie: 114365. I also have one 5 digit number in my collection with a BWM - he ent'd in the 1870's!! - that is very unusual tho. Also the numbering system changed in '08 to include prefix letters, so one sees many numbers with letters before them (& those indicate his branch); ie: J23154, K3456, L2023 etc those digits can be any where form single to 6 digits. So you could distinguish on the tag from these numbers if the fellow was RN. The RM used their port divison letter before their numbers; ie: P (or PO)4536, C (or CH)8976 etc. Then there were many many other RN associated letters & variants for RND, RNR, RNVR, RFR, SS ratings,armoured car units, wartime RNVR unit prefixes (many of them) so it covers the whole gamut of letters & numbers. Most of the numbers tho for these wartime raised units were 3 or 4, sometimes 5 digit numbers. So hope this helps a bit... Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 10 September , 2004 Share Posted 10 September , 2004 Dave, I missed the RFR - the Royal Fleet Reserve was part of the RN & an important part too because they were made up of trained Naval pensioners who had "done their time" & elected to enter the RFR after their regular service time expired. They were subject to call up & many were called up for mobilization drill in July 1914. They were usually discharged from the RFR upon reaching 50 yrs of age. These RFR men had two ON's - their regular RN ON & the RFR ON. The RFR ON was prefixed by letter A, B, or C. There is also an IC but I have never seen one of these. These letters referred to the type of pension they were in receipt of. Also included was their Port divison prefix; ie: 257134 Po A2345 (so he was a Porstmouth port division rating who was in reciept of a life pension for serving upward of 20 yrs in the RN) Many of these RFR ratings were in receipt of the RFR long service medal. which req'd 15 yrs service in the RN & RFR combined. There was also SS men (special service entrants) they signed on for 5 years regular service & 7 years RFR service. Their ON's are prefixed with SS; ie: SS-10802. they went up to 6 digits. One sees many WWI medals with these prefixes. Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 10 September , 2004 Share Posted 10 September , 2004 I've got a set of WW1 tags to an ASC man (who DOW)...... both are round. However, I do have a set to a man in the RAF - WW2 - and one of 'em looks just like it (except for the writing!!!). Below is the WW1 set of tags.... Les. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 10 September , 2004 Share Posted 10 September , 2004 ...... and here's the WW2 set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 10 September , 2004 Share Posted 10 September , 2004 As previously stated canadian tags usally have either "Canada" or "Canadians" on the tag I thought I would include some CEF examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 10 September , 2004 Share Posted 10 September , 2004 same tags opposite sides Best regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 10 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 10 September , 2004 Dave, I missed the RFR - the Royal Fleet Reserve was part of the RN & an important part too because they were made up of trained Naval pensioners who had "done their time" & elected to enter the RFR after their regular service time expired. They were subject to call up & many were called up for mobilization drill in July 1914. They were usually discharged from the RFR upon reaching 50 yrs of age. These RFR men had two ON's - their regular RN ON & the RFR ON. The RFR ON was prefixed by letter A, B, or C. There is also an IC but I have never seen one of these. These letters referred to the type of pension they were in receipt of. Also included was their Port divison prefix; ie: 257134 Po A2345 (so he was a Porstmouth port division rating who was in reciept of a life pension for serving upward of 20 yrs in the RN) Many of these RFR ratings were in receipt of the RFR long service medal. which req'd 15 yrs service in the RN & RFR combined. There was also SS men (special service entrants) they signed on for 5 years regular service & 7 years RFR service. Their ON's are prefixed with SS; ie: SS-10802. they went up to 6 digits. One sees many WWI medals with these prefixes. Bryan Thanks for that Bryan. I now know more than I ever did on Navy matters. I'll print the info that you've given me - it might come in handy one day. -------------------------- Les. The lozenge shaped tag (known as the "Number one tag") came into being in September 1916 and stayed in service untill well into the 1960's. I think mine is post - 1930 because (mainly) of the colouring and condition. ------------------------- I now believe the tag to be a nursing service tag from WW2 or beyond. Thanks for alll your help, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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