Doug Lewis Posted 5 September , 2004 Share Posted 5 September , 2004 I’m researching the following man Frank G Hubbard but I’m totally confused. CWGC records him firstly serving with 1st Btn Garr Nott’s & Derby Rgt, transferred to (358595) 811th Area Employment Coy, Labour Corps. Died 08/12/1918 buried KANTARA war memorial cemetery Egypt I downloaded his M.I.C. which records he served as Pte 358595 in the Labour Corps but records that prior to this he served with the Worcestershire Rgt as Pte 20531!! No mention of Nott’s & Derby Rgt. The M.I.C. records the Theatre of War First Served in as 2B and date of entry therein as 20/9/15. I did a search on the forum and found theatre of entry codes which says 2B is Gallipoli/Dardanelles but not until after 1/1/16. 2 up until 31/12/15 is recorded as Balkans but that can’t be right. I looked on the Long Long Trail which gives the 4th Btn Worcs and 9th Btn Nott’s & Derby Rgt serving in Gallipoli. Checking his first service number on SDGW it matches closer to the Worcs Rgt. So which regiment did he serve in? Do I go with his M.I.C or C.W.G.C? Any help or guidance would be appreciated. Regards Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 5 September , 2004 Share Posted 5 September , 2004 Doug, All I can offer is that the 1st Garrison Bn of the Sherwood Foresters was based in Kantara, so the fact that he is buried there is either a big clue or a startling coincidence. Beyond that I share your confusion!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 6 September , 2004 Share Posted 6 September , 2004 Doug, 2B (Balkans) actually means Gallipoli. My grandfather served there and has the same notation. Regards Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 7 September , 2004 Share Posted 7 September , 2004 Hi Doug 'The M.I.C. records the Theatre of War First Served in as 2B and date of entry therein as 20/9/15. I did a search on the forum and found theatre of entry codes which says 2B is Gallipoli/Dardanelles but not until after 1/1/16. 2 up until 31/12/15 is recorded as Balkans but that can’t be right.' 2b is Gallipoli, from April 1915 to early Jan 1916, after which time the British forces were evac'd. From Jan' 1916 there were no Allied troops in Gallipoli as the onus was on the Suez canal (and many units were moved to the Western Front) so his entry Sept would be right. Ive got Westlake at home - if its any use I can copy the Sept onwards entry for the Btn? (Be tommorrow now mate) If he was wounded in Gallipoli or Sinai / Palestine, his death in the Labour Corps Egypt would make sense. Prob operated on in Alexandira /Cairo? A few units were merged in Gallipoli (illness and casualty levels); could the 2 units in question have been merged in Theatre perhaps? Only a guess ... Personally Id go with the MIC until you can prove the accuracy of either one (IMHO). Let me know if the diary would be any use Doug? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 7 September , 2004 Share Posted 7 September , 2004 Don't be confused by the 1st Bn Notts & Derby, & the 1st Garrison Bn Notts & Derby as they different. The 1st Garrison Bn was a Home Service Unit, whilst the 1st Bn was in India when war broke out. It would appear that your man first served with the 1st Garrison Bn as an HS man and was then transferred to the Worcestershire Regiment. This would be the first Regt with which he served overseas. From the MIC he served in Gallipoli, which came under the Balkans MIC code 2b up to thte end of 1915. Either through wounds or sickness - something that led to his medical downgrading, he transferred to the Labour Corps; 358595 is a late 1917 number (Ivor?). The crux of the issue is that Home Service Regiments prior to overseas service are not shown on MICs. (There are a few exceptions with early MGC men). So the balance of probability is that his service is as I have laid out. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Lewis Posted 7 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 7 September , 2004 Thank you all very much for your help,as usual it's excellent informative information I have received. Thank you. Regards Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 7 September , 2004 Share Posted 7 September , 2004 Ian's comments are very perceptive as usual. But the Kantara link is exceptional. The 1st Garrison Battalion was not formed until July 1915 and in October of that year moved to Egypt. Many members of the battalion were involved in a serious mutiny in June 1917 at Kantara (Qantarah esh Sharqiya) in Egypt. Kantara was the terminus of a railroad to Palestine constructed during World War I and the base of the British Expeditionary Force in Egypt. 64 men were charged and all were given punishments of two years hard labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 8 September , 2004 Share Posted 8 September , 2004 According the Westlake: On the 9th November 1915 4 officers and 200 other ranks of the 1st Garrison Battalion Notts & Derby Regiment were attached to the 2/10th Middlesex for fatigue duties at Lala Baba defences, Suvla Bay. This is the only mentioned of the battalion. The 2/10th Middlesex was evacuated on the 13th of December 1915. The 4th Worcesters were involved in the landing at Helles on the 25th April 1915 suffering 314 casualties by the 28th April. Lt James of the battalion won a VC on the 28th July 1915 at Gully Ravine. They were involved in the actions at the Vineyard on the 6th and 7th August in the Suvla diversions. In this action they sufferred casualties of 16 officers and 752 other ranks out of a complement of 24 officers and approximately 800 other ranks. They sufferred badly in the November blizzards with strength reduced from 700 to 300 in five days. Elements of the battalion began to evacuate on the 19th December and all elements had departed Gallipoli by the 8th January 1916. The 9th (Service) Battalion ralso served at Gallipoli arrived in July 1915. They received a number of drafts on the 12th and 18th of September. Perhaps he initially served with the 9th Worcesters, was medically downgraded to the 1st Garrison Battalion Notts & Derby when they arrived and then was transferred to the Labour Corps in Egypt? Food for thought? Regards Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 8 September , 2004 Share Posted 8 September , 2004 Tim, That makes good sense. I was unaware of the 200 or so men from the Garrison battalion who went to Suvla, so that is very useful. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Lewis Posted 8 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 September , 2004 Perhaps he initially served with the 9th Worcesters, was medically downgraded to the 1st Garrison Battalion Notts & Derby when they arrived and then was transferred to the Labour Corps in Egypt? Food for thought? Tim I follow and understand your reasoning but if he served with Notts & Derby overseas (given what Ian has said previously) this would have been recorded on his M.I.C. Regards Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 10 September , 2004 Share Posted 10 September , 2004 Got me stumped Doug, There must be some significance in the fact that he is listed this way with the CWGC. Am at work and don't have Soldiers Died. What does it say? Perhaps he was medically downgraded and was just attached to the 1st Garrison Battalion Sherwood Foresters pending a permanent allocation to the Labour Corps? TD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 10 September , 2004 Share Posted 10 September , 2004 Got me stumped Doug, There must be some significance in the fact that he is listed this way with the CWGC. Am at work and don't have Soldiers Died. What does it say? Perhaps he was medically downgraded and was just attached to the 1st Garrison Battalion Sherwood Foresters pending a permanent allocation to the Labour Corps? TD He is not in Soldiers Died in the Great War Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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