Finding five great great uncles

[N.S.Regt.]

Hi

With the success of finding Manning Pike I thought I would give my search a go on the Forum. I have been talking with Derek Robertson about possibilities of tracking down some relatives on my mothers side. He has been a great help and found my great grandmother on the Civil Registration Index. It was told to be that My great grandmother had five brothers that were killed in WW1 A few attempts were made but nothing was ever found. I have been asking the family about anything they may remember about her life in the U.K. before she came to Canada. Not much was known my mothers family never did much in regards to history my fathers side has traced the family back to the 1600s in Germany.

What I know about my great grandmother is she was born in Cleobury Mortimer in 1892 I was told a birthdate but it seems to be incorrect. There are family records in the old Anglain Church in Cleobury Mortimer. Her father according to the family was a member of that towns band no idea if he had anyother job. She was born Gertrude Kate Evans and came to Canada sometime after WW1. She passed away in 1977 in Ottawa Ontairo and is buried in Hamilton Ontario where she lived most of her life. What I am after is the names of her family Father, Mother, brothers, and sisters. I would also would like to know who her brothers (who are as told to me killed) served with and how to find them on the CWGC site. I did try the 1901 census but found it hard to get around and logged out before I knew what I was doing. Here is the link that Derek provided me for the Civil Registration Index. If you have any other questions ask and I will see what I can find out.

Best Regards

N.S.Regt.

[Myrtle]

N.S.Regt.

There is a Gertrude Evans listed as born and living in Cleobury Mortimer in 1901 aged 8 years old.

Just checked the SDGW and found that there seems to be only one soldier named Evans who was registered as born in Cleobury Mortimer. He is Pte. Percy John Evans 8522 - details as follows:

2nd Battalion Border Regiment.

Born: Cleobury Mortimer, Shrop.

Enlisted: Manchester

Resident: Cashedine Bwleh, Nr. Brecon. South Wales

KiA 26/10/14

F&F

Checking the 1901 census there was a Percy Evans in Cleobury Mortimer at that time. He was born there also. He is listed as 13 years old in 1901.

You should check further with the 1901 census to find out if Gertrude and Percy were living in the same family and if so to find out who else was with them.

Myrtle

[Jacob]

HI. If you want I can look up an obit in The Hamilton Spectator if you have a date of death. I live in Hamilton.

Bill White

[N.S.Regt.]

Myrtle

Thanks for the information I was recording some names from the 1901 census he was on the list. I am not sure if I got the right family but I did manage to download a page. I was having trouble finding out how to use the site to find earlier mentions like the 1891 census when I cut myself off. I found one family with a Gertrude Evans and a Percy Evans but no middle names or initals were recorded, is this common?. These may be my great grandmother and one of her brothers.

The names I recorded were for a family on High Street and list only 4 brothers and 4 sisters family lore has five of her brothers killed unless one or more of her siblings moved out by the time of the 1901 census. The names I have are

Father Arthur J. Evans age 47

Mother Emma B Evans age 45

Daughter Henrietta Evans age 21

Son Bernard Evans age 20

Daughter Ida M. Evans age 18

Daughter Mary A Evans age 17

Son Percy Evans age 13

Son Ivor Evans age 12

Daughter Gertude Evans age 8

Son William E. Evans age 2

Do you think I have the correct family I also wonder if their is at least one more brother out there the family says five. Would the SDGW list the place of birth for all who had died if not how would one find out if the others had enlisted. Any further assistance would be welcome.

Best regards

N.S.Regt.

[N.S.Regt.]

Bill

Good to here from you I did not know you hailed from Hamilton my own mother was born there. How is the search for your relatives progressing? I have my grandfather (he lives there in Hamilton also small world) digging out the information on my great grandmother in regards to her death but thank you for your offer.

Best regards

N.S.Regt

[Myrtle]

N.S.Regt.

Gertrude's age matches your g. grandmother's at the time and there does not appear to be another Gertrude in Cleobury Mortimer in 1901.

If you put "Cleobury Mortimer and WW1 Memorial" into Google you should find someone who posted last year asking for information on W. Evans who is listed on the War Memorial. This could be the 2 year old. It would be worth contacting her to find out if she has uncovered any further information. Also if you put Muller Cleobury Mortimer Band ( the band in Cleobury Mortimer started in the early 1900s) in to Google you will find their site. Again it would be worth contacting them to find if they have an archive which includes some of the early band members' names.

Let me know how your search progresses.

Myrtle

[N.S.Regt.]

Myrtle

Thanks again I will try as you suggested so it looks like I have the right family and Percy John Evans was one of the brothers. You got one the first night this is great I will try to contact the lady looking for Information maybe there are more Evans on the memorial in Cleobury Mortimer.

Thanks again

and best regards

N.S.Regt

[Myrtle]

N.S.Regt.

Percy Evan's entry in SDGW has him resident in Cashedine Bwleh. This spelling is incorrect. It should read Cathedine Bwlch. Cathedine and Bwlch are villages in the county of Powys, Cathedine being the smaller of the two.

I have been wondering why Percy enlisted in Manchester when he was resident in South Wales and why he joined the Border Regiment rather than the KSLI or a Welsh Regiment. Connection with the North West of England through an older brother or wife - maybe ?? There is no mention of him having been transferred from another regiment to the Borders in the SDGW. Have you checked Percy's MIC yet, as details in SDGW are not always correct ?

Myrtle

[N.S.Regt.]

Myrtle

Have not checked the MICs yet, good idea. I also found the The message you directed me to last night when I regestered it kept rejecting my Email when I responded to the one they sent me. I did find two sites which gave a brief history of the band but no names of past members the formation of the band fits the time frame. I am going to run the search for the war memorial again to see if there are any photographs of the names. The pictures I have seen of Cleobury Mortimer looks like it is still a small town I wonder if there are any surviving family members. I did check the CWGC for a William Evans found 17 Possibilities going to try to narrow it down today. Off to check the MIC will post when I have it, if it is on line yet. I am learning so much about tracing British soldiers this is just great

Thanks and

best regards

N.S.Regt.

[Myrtle]

N.S. Regt.

You may find out more information regarding the War Memorial from Dr. M.W.Baldwin who is listed as a contact for the Cleobury Mortimer History Society.

Email address:

history@mbaldwin.free-online.co.uk

Myrtle

[N.S.Regt.]

Myrtle

Thanks for the contact I have sent a email will let you know if anything comes out of it.

Best regards

N.S.Regt.

[N.S.Regt.]

Myrtle

I did some checking and came across this link it has a memorial that mentions Percy. The memorial is located in the village of Bwlch south east of Brecon. It must be the same one you mentioned earlier I have no idea why he would be there, possibly work in the area. If his place of birth is Cleobury Mortimer he would likely be the one, hopefully the Cleobury Mortimer Historical society will be able to help. I do not know why he would have enlisted in Manchester maybe he was in the city at the time.

Best regards

N.S.Regt

[Myrtle]

N.S.Regt.

Well found. That ties in with his SDGW listing as resident: Cathedine, Bwlch. Also it indicates that he was the first man to be killed from the community.

Did you receive my pm ?

Myrtle

[N.S.Regt.]

Myrtle

I did receive your pm I have been working on the MIC and finally got it so I can get it posted. I think that he may have enlisted in Manchester because he happen to to be there at the time. As you said in the pm the 2nd bn. Border Regt. appears to be the only unit he served with. He must have joined them because he was attracted to the regiment. It would seem he had only 21 days over before he was killed. I did manage to find something interesting on the CWGC link note that the parents names are the same but the address and the first name is different could this be William the age is about right. below is the MIC and I have also included the orginal list from the 1901 census I will also mail you the full size sheet.

Thanks and best regards

N.S.Regt.

[N.S.Regt.]

1901 census

[Myrtle]

N.S.Regt.

I've just checked SDGW for Wilfred and it has only place of enlistment (Brecon), no residence or place of birth. He was originally with the South Wales Borderers - 2622.

As the Emma's middle initial B. on the 1901 census and Arthur's initial J. seem to match with the parents' initials on CWGC details and they already have a link with the Brecon area through Percy, it looks a strong possibility that Wilfred could be a child born after the 1901 census - this could make him the missing brother; however you need to check further on this as there are Arthur Evans and Emma Evans listed on 1901 census in the Brecon area, although I can not find a Gertrude Evans.

83, High Street seems to be the family address in Cleobury Mortimer.

Myrtle

[Annette Burgoyne]

Hi N.S.Regt.

I can have a look at earlier census returns if you want, I have got time off work at moment and can visit my local Library at Ludlow, which as census returns for Cleobury. I had a look at the Absent Voters list for Cleobury but none of your family are listed.

By the way Cleobury Mortimer as not changed much since 1901, the High Street as changed little over the years.

Annette

[N.S.Regt.]

Myrtle

It appears that Wilfred Evans is another family since there are two Arthur J. Evans and Emma B. Evans. I am sure my family is in Cleobury Mortimer since that is what my existing relatives agree on. I did check the possibilities for Ivor and came up with only four so he may be easier to track down. William on the other hand I have found 8 others with the same initials and a large number with either W or William. I also checked on Bernard I have got it down to three B. Evans. I will try and post some details later.

Thanks and best regards

N.S.Regt.

[N.S.Regt.]

Annette

That would be great. My grandfather was over looking at the bases he served at in WW2 and was in Cleobury Mortimer in the 1970s he said the same. I wonder if the old house still stands.

Thanks and

Best regards

N.S.Regt

[Myrtle]

It appears that Wilfred Evans is another family since there are two Arthur J. Evans and Emma B. Evans.

Yes there did seem to be a few in the Brecon area. An open mind is the best policy when trying to track people through the census, then confirmation using as many sources as possible. By the way Arthur Evans was born in Highley according to 1901 census. Highley was an old Shropshire mining village on the banks of the River Severn.

Annette

I was hoping you would notice this thread, with your local knowledge of the area.

I take it you didn't hear anything about the elusive Thomas Francis ?

Myrtle

[N.S.Regt.]

Myrtle

Here are some of the possiblities for Ivor and Bernard.

Ivor

link

link

link

link

link

link this may be the best choice

Bernard

link

link

link

If you can eliminate any or all of these it would be great. I just noticed your last post and I will keep a open mind, this is my first real attempt at this sort of thing. Thanks again for all your wonderful help.

Best regards

N.S.Regt

[Myrtle]

N.S. Rgt.

I will start with the Ivor list, posted in same order.

1. Isaac

2. Isaac

3. Ivor Born: Swansea En: Swansea

4. Isaac

5. Isaac

6. Ivor Born: Penydarren, Glamorgan En: Merthyr Res: Dowlais, Glam. (all in South Wales)

I also found Able Seaman Ivor John Evans on CWGC who was Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve Died: 30/12/17

Bernard in same order:

1. Bertie

2. Bertie

3. Benjamin Philip Born: Merthyr

Regards

Myrtle

[N.S.Regt.]

Myrtle

I think that elimanates those men so it is possible these two had not died unless they used a nickname of some sort. Hopefully the Cleobury Mortimer Historical Society will have the names on the memorial. I will try the CWGC again tomorrow and see if there is any other clues. I am going to talk to my grandfather and see I I can jog his memory somemore.

Thanks and

Best regards

N.S.Regt.

[Annette Burgoyne]

Myrtle - I email Thomas Francis' family but they did not reply, I may try again just in case the email did not get to them.

N.S.Regt. - Up to a couple of weeks ago I was travelling to and from Cleobury twice a day as part of my job, but as I said above I am off work for the time. I would have gone and had a look at memorial for you.

Your family may have left Cleobury by the time of the Great War, seeing that none are recorded in Cleobury's Absent Voters ? People moved around a lot in those days looking for work. My own Great Grandfather made many moves, as all his kids were born in different location.

By the way Highley is not far from Cleobury.

Annette

[N.S.Regt.]

Annette Myrtle

I just received a rather positive email from the contact that Myrtle provided, Mark Baldwin he knows of someone who is working on the war memorial and has forwarded my email to her. He also mentioned that Evans is not a uncommon name is the area. I will post any details when they come in. My great grandmother

left the U.K. Sometime after WW1 so it is possible that she and her family did move to another location prior to this. My grandmother her daughter was born in the mid 1920s in Ontairo Canada. I am finding myself getting a good geography lesson on south-west England and Wales Thanks again.

Best regards

N.S.Regt.