Myrtle Posted 7 September , 2004 Share Posted 7 September , 2004 I think that elimanates those men so it is possible these two had not died unless they used a nickname of some sort. N.S.Regt. Do not eliminate the Ivors at the moment as it was not unusual for men to give their place of birth as the same as their place of residence, sometimes for simplicity, sometimes because they didn't know where they were born etc. Keep the details of the three Ivors just in case. As Annette has said, families tended to travel around at that time to find work and South Wales was a main centre of industry, having the coal mining and steel production. Don't eliminate Wilfred either, the family may have moved to Brecon. I am researching a War Memorial in Mid Wales and the 85 men on that lived not only in the immediate area but also other areas of Britain and as far afield as Canada, Australia and South Africa. The one thing that they had in common was that they were born or known as family within the small town's local community. I'm pleased to hear that the Cleobury Mortimer contact has brought a reply. Let me know if you learn more from the C M Memorial researcher. Regards Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Robertson Posted 7 September , 2004 Share Posted 7 September , 2004 Great to see that you're having some success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 7 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 7 September , 2004 Myrtle I still have all the information I have gathered so if need be I can get back to it. i will keep the Ivors as you suggest. I had been searching most of the day for information and did come accross this link I still have to make contact with Mr. Morris but I have checked out the KSLI men with W and William and came up with 6 possibilities. Most listed were to old or the parents were all wrong for William. here are some possibilites link link link link link I know some have wrong initals but maybe still could be from Cleobury Mortimer. I still have not heard from the Cleobury Mortimer HS but I would think it would take a little time to check out the records. Keeping my fingers crossed. could it be possible that the family had two households at the same time with Arthur and Emma as the head of both (a possibility)? Let you know when I find more. Thanks and best regards N.S.Regt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 7 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 7 September , 2004 Derek Thanks for poping in and for getting the ball rolling I hope I am able to track down all of her family. Maybe this will inspire some of my mothers family to do a little research theirselves. Off to send a Email. Best regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 7 September , 2004 Share Posted 7 September , 2004 N.S.Regt. I had checked SDGW at the beginning of the search for any soldiers named Evans with links to Cleobury Mortimer. Percy was the only one to emerge. The following Williams in order: 1. B: Shrewsbury En: Shrewsbury 2. B: Dudleston Heath Salop en: Whitchurch Res: Ellesmere, Salop. 3. B. Canon Pyon,Hereford. En: Hereford. Res: Canon Pyon. 4. B: St.Peters,Hereford. En: Shrewsbury. Res: Hereford. 5. B: St.John's Cardiff. En: Cardiff. There is another William Evans who was with the RFC. The CWGC have him listed as: William Elwyn Evans Airman 2nd Class RFC 55082 Recruits Training Centre (Halton) Died: 9th February 1917 Buried: Manor Park Cemetery Essex Dolphin very kindly checked to see if he has any further information on this man and has added that this airman died of meningitis. Again the initials are fitting but there is no mention of age or parents. Regards Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 7 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 7 September , 2004 Myrtle I was hoping to see if the parents were mentioned in the SDGW. Does the SDGW list parents at all? I have never seen this book sounds like a great tool. I will let you know when I get any replies to my Emails. If William was in the KSLI he still may be one of those. I have sent off a Email to Mr. Morris in the hope that he has forund the William on the Cleobury Mortimer War Memorial. Thanks again for your time and patience. Best regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 7 September , 2004 Share Posted 7 September , 2004 N.S.Regt. SDGW lists soldiers' names, number, rank, regiment, battalion,where born,place of enlistment,place of residence,died date,died how,theatre of war, previous regiments and awards. There is no mention of age or parents' names. The SDGW is produced in book form but the CD is more user friendly. Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 8 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 September , 2004 Murtle I just received a email from Mr. Phillip Morris he had not been able to ID the William Evans on the Cleobury Mortimer war memorial. He did say that the St. Chad's Church in Shrewbury has a memorial book and he is mentioned there as being in the KSLI. Maybe he is one of the Shrewbury men you mentioned earlier. I did do a check on Shrewbury and it is almost in the middle of Shropshire so he could have been in the area at the time. If he is one of these men he may have lied about his age and place of birth to get in. Do you think I should contact the church and see if I can find out anything further? The SDGW may be something I may invest in I will have to check it out. Thanks again. Best regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 8 September , 2004 Share Posted 8 September , 2004 Hi N.S.Regt. I found your family on the 1891 & 1881 census returns, but there is not much that you do not alread know. I am not sure if they are at the same address because I do not think that the numbers on the census forms are house numbers. Any way here is info. from 1881 census 38 High St. Cleobury Arthur aged 27 (Job G?????? assistant) born Highley Emma aged 25 born Cleobury Henrietta aged 1 born Cleobury Bernard aged 3 months born Cleobury 1891 census 118 Higher Town Cleobury (I think the chap that wrote out this part of census had been drinking as far as I know there is no such place in Cleobury ?) Arthur aged 37 born Highley Emma aged 35 born Cleobury Henrietta P aged 11 born Cleobury Bernard a aged 10 born Cleobury (looks like an a after Bernard) Mary a aged 6 born Cleobury (looks like an a after Mary) Percy f aged 3 born Cleobury (looks like an f after Percy) Ivor r aged 2 born Cleobury (looks like an r after Ivor ?) There is no mention of Ida but she may have been staying eslwhere on census night. Sorry the above is of no help tracing when and if brothers were killed in war, I think the only way you will find out for sure is by finding their death certifates, Bernard, Ivor and William may have died after war from effects of war and family legend as altered over the years ? Annette PS If I can get to Shrewsbury some time (I am going on Monday to Hospital but the b****y research centre is closed on Mondays), I will have a look at voting lists (1901 onwards) for Cleobury to see if I can find Arthurs name, it may help to see how long family stayed in Cleobury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 8 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 September , 2004 Annette Thanks for your trouble at least it confirms the family was in Cleobury Mortimer From at least 1880 (Henrietta being born about 1880) and was there untill 1901. this gives us at least some middle initals to work from and may prove usefull. I noticed I left the second "s" out of Shrewsbury have to watch that kind of thing when doing searches. The address is 83 High Str. in 1901 either the family moved up and down the street or the house nr. changed in the 20 years. You may be right about it not being house numbers. I will check to see if I can find men in the CWGC site to find matches on the initals Thanks again and best regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 8 September , 2004 Share Posted 8 September , 2004 I do not know why he would have enlisted in Manchester maybe he was in the city at the time. The 1901 census lists an Edwin Evans, born in Cleobury Mortimer but at the time of the census was resident in Salford (Manchester). Percy may have been staying with his uncle ?? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 8 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 September , 2004 Andy He could be family, from what I have seen on the net and from Annette's and my grandfather's discriptions it does not look like a big place. At least we have the the names of her family and I know there are no other brothers or sisters prior to 1901. Arthurs parents may have been the ones to move from Highley and the rest of the family settled in the area. I may have to check this possibility. Thanks and Best regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 8 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 September , 2004 Myrtle, Annette, Max I just finished looking at the 1871 Census I have confirmed that (thanks to the tip from Max) that Edwin Evans was a brother to Arthur and thus establishes a connection for Percy in Manchester. I have two generations for the family in the U.K. this is great. Just have to find what the other brothers were doing during the war and see if the family story rings true. Below are the names from the page. Thanks and best regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 8 September , 2004 Share Posted 8 September , 2004 N.S.Regt. Excellent. The question of why Percy joined up in Manchester appears to have been answered. I have sent you a pm. Regards Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 9 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 9 September , 2004 Just a update In regards to Myrtle's PM I have done a further search. It was suggested that maybe that some cousins maybe included in the family war dead. I have explored this possibility in regards to the men of the family there appears to have been no other children born to Arthur's brothers I am still trying to find the sisters but have not been able to find anything in regards to marrage. I have checked the 1917 directory for Shropshire and only was able to find William Arthur's brother no mention of his sons in the area unless I had missed something. The 1911 directory when it is released in 8 years may hold more clues. Still waiting on Cleobury Mortimer Historical Society to respond maybe they will have some news. Best regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 10 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 10 September , 2004 I have recieved a reply From the Cleobury Mortimer Historical Society it seems there are two Evans on the Memorial. One is W. Evans and the other is P. Evans. I have provided them with the research I have and they seemed very positive and are going to look into the parish records for information on the family. They are also going to post a request on the Cleobury message board for more information. I will have to check it out. All for now. Best regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 10 September , 2004 Share Posted 10 September , 2004 Hi N.S.Regt. Glad to see Cleobury Mortimer Historical Society have got back to you, I hope they can come up with some positive info. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 10 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 10 September , 2004 Annette Thanks, they seemed really interested with the material about Percy. It seems that they had long thought the man on the memorial was Percy but never had definate proof I hope the information thay was provided answered that for them. I am still out to prove or disprove that the other mentioned was William he may be one of those men enlisted in Shrewsbury and commerated in the Church memorial. Still have no leads on Bernard or Ivor I have not given up yet but am thinking that the family oral history may be in error. It would be interesting to see if the Historical Society can find records of death or marrage for the period. I have recomended this site and the good group of historians here for their research into the memorial. By any chance do you have access to town directories for the area. I did check the 1917 directory for Stropshire for Evans and found only a couple of mentions of a uncle William N.S. Evans who was a grocer in Cleobury Mortimer. It was most likely he that gave Arthur the grocers job that is mentioned in the census. I did try a couple of pay for view sites and traced the family back another generation. I will keep you all informed when I hear or find anything new. Best regards N.S.Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 10 September , 2004 Share Posted 10 September , 2004 Hi N.S.Regt. It is so annoying, that the research centre at Shrewsbury is closed on Mondays, seeing that I have to go to Shrewsbury on that day. Hope the next appointment will on an other day. I am sure Cleobury's Parish register used to be on the net but have failed to fine it since I last looked at it two or three years ago plus I can't remember what date it went up to. I have been looking at all the Evan's in my K.S.L.I. database and none seem to be linked to Cleobury but like Myrtle said some men did not know where they were born, bearing in mind that William & family may moved when he was young ? Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.S.Regt. Posted 10 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 10 September , 2004 Annette I have thought about the possibility that the family had moved (boy would that 1911 census come in handy) I wonder if they may have move to Bwlch since Percy is on the memorial there. In St Chad's in Shrewsbury both a William and Percy Evans are commerated there so either the Family moved or there are two William and Percy Evans it does appear to be a possibility. Arthur seems to have stayed put in Cleobury Mortimer for at least 30 years up to 1901 all the children were born there. Hopefully the historical society will have some answers. Off to check a few things. I will have to see if St. Chads has a email. Best regards N.S.Regt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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