FROGSMILE Posted 18 April , 2013 Share Posted 18 April , 2013 I enclose an image of some smart pipers from a cadet unit in Scotland in WW1, but the unit is unclear to me. Some of what they wear appears to relate to the Gordons, such as the sporran, but the Boars head sporran badge was associated with the former 91st Argyllshire Highlanders as it is the clan badge of the Duke of Argyll, who was a Campbell. Alternatively then could they be associated with the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders but be still wearing an old 91st piece of insignia? The sporrans are not as worn by the A&SH, nor did the pipers of the 91st wear them. The tartan appears to be the government sett and the streamers on the pipes Royal Stuart. The hose appears to be red and white. I could not post the photo any larger. They do not look very happy and the ground is clearly waterlogged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2013 I also found online what is clearly the sporran being worn in the picture, but it has not been captioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 18 April , 2013 Share Posted 18 April , 2013 Is there any significance in the feathers appearing from above and behind the cap badge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 18 April , 2013 Share Posted 18 April , 2013 Hose would suggest Argyll. Boar's head badge was worn by 5th Royal Regiment of Canada I think (certainly as officers' lapel badges) Are you sure this photo dates from WWI? Something about it (tonal quality) etc suggests post war to me. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Barton Posted 18 April , 2013 Share Posted 18 April , 2013 This is speculation ,but the lads at the rear right in mufti suggest school uniforms to me.. and the style of wearing the attached shirt collars outside the jackets suggest the 1930s. The shorts rather make me think of Gordonstoun ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Barton Posted 18 April , 2013 Share Posted 18 April , 2013 Perhaps Gordonstoun itself is a bit unlikely, since it wasn't founded until 1934 ( I just looked it up ! ) But a similar boarding school might be likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2013 I believe you may well have it Tony. I think that Chris might be correct that the photo is later. On a larger version I have looked at the school boys and they do have the look of the 1930s about them, possibly even the decade later. It seems to be a school and all the boys have a badge on their blazer. Two of the uniformed lads in the front rank have the old Volunteer's 'Efficiency lozenge' on their right forearms and it seems that these were worn by cadets at around that time. I still feel that the key factor that will reveal an answer is the type of sporran and badge being worn, which must surely have a Campbell/Argyll connection. Things appear to be leading towards a public school with an Argyllshire connection, with the boy pipe band being CCF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 18 April , 2013 Share Posted 18 April , 2013 Hose would suggest Argyll. Boar's head badge was worn by 5th Royal Regiment of Canada I think (certainly as officers' lapel badges) Are you sure this photo dates from WWI? Something about it (tonal quality) etc suggests post war to me. Chris Both the hose and the placement of the garter flashes' leading edge at the center-line of the shin (and front red die) is as was worn by the A&SH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2013 Is there any significance in the feathers appearing from above and behind the cap badge? I believe that they are the black cock feathers that were traditionally worn by pipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 18 April , 2013 Share Posted 18 April , 2013 In general cadets ACF/CCF should not have full "dress rights". So any ID of cadet units will be a quest. Small WW1 connection. The Lovat Scouts now live on as a cadet unit. So techicaly not disbanded unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 18 April , 2013 Share Posted 18 April , 2013 I believe that they are the black cock feathers that were traditionally worn by pipers. The black cock feathers were worn by pipers of all Scottish regiments in the glengarries except for The Black Watch who used feather bonnets (with their traditional red hackles) and the Cameron Highlanders who had an eagle's feather mounted in the glengarry. After 1928, Scot Guards pipers replaced glengarries with the feather bonnet at the urging of KG V who made admiring remarks about the Black Watch's feather bonnets when a guest at a Scots Guards mess. The Royal Scots Greys (after 1971 RS Dragoon Guards) adopted feather bonnets upon formation of a pipe band in 1947. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 18 April , 2013 Share Posted 18 April , 2013 I believe that they are the black cock feathers that were traditionally worn by pipers. Thanks for the explanantion. I wonder if this is not Kelvinside Academy OTC Band. The badge looks to be quite large and circular and definitely has a look of one of their badges KK 2583--only problem is that they were affiliated to the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) -- I believe!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 19 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 19 April , 2013 Thanks for the explanantion. I wonder if this is not Kelvinside Academy OTC Band. The badge looks to be quite large and circular and definitely has a look of one of their badges KK 2583--only problem is that they were affiliated to the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) -- I believe!! Yes, the badge does look like an OTC or CCF type. It is a question of which school/college it is. I still think that the answer must lay in the sporran, especially as I soon found it online after a search for "boars head sporran", but frustratingly it was uncaptioned to say who it is. There are some clear clues though from the A&SH style hose, government sett kilts and a boars head associated with Argyll/Campbells. Someone must know who they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbrydon Posted 19 April , 2013 Share Posted 19 April , 2013 Just as a matter of interest Gordonstoun School CCF was originallly a company of the 1st Moray Cadet Battalion,Seaforth Highlanders becoming an independent CCF in 1961,the unit was then afilliated to the Queens Own Highlanders until being discontinued in 1975. P.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 21 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 21 April , 2013 Just as a matter of interest Gordonstoun School CCF was originallly a company of the 1st Moray Cadet Battalion,Seaforth Highlanders becoming an independent CCF in 1961,the unit was then afilliated to the Queens Own Highlanders until being discontinued in 1975. P.B. It seems that the Dollar Academy CCF has been affiliated to the A&SH for many years and that they also have a pipe band, so I am wondering if it is them. Did they wear a white sporran with two black tails? Did they wear the badge of Argyll, the boar's head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 21 April , 2013 Share Posted 21 April , 2013 It seems that the Dollar Academy CCF has been affiliated to the A&SH for many years and that they also have a pipe band, so I am wondering if it is them. Did they wear a white sporran with two black tails? Yes Did they wear the badge of Argyll Yes , the boar's head? Not sure. Website Contact Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 21 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 21 April , 2013 Website Contact Mike Thank you Mike. It seems that they are not wearing the boar's head sporran badge now, but perhaps they did in the past, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 22 April , 2013 Share Posted 22 April , 2013 Website Contact Mike Good find. It does seem that Dollar Academy is the likely ID. The present A&SH style badge is a match to the original photograph. Interestingly, the school must have changed the pattern of the cap badge during the inter-war period. Below is what the badge looked like circa 1918 (from Cox Military Badges of the British Empire 1914-1918). This further solidifies the date of the original photo to inter-war or possibly even later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 22 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2013 Good find. It does seem that Dollar Academy is the likely ID. The present A&SH style badge is a match to the original photograph. Interestingly, the school must have changed the pattern of the cap badge during the inter-war period. Below is what the badge looked like circa 1918 (from Cox Military Badges of the British Empire 1914-1918). This further solidifies the date of the original photo to inter-war or possibly even later. That is very useful. I am hoping that someone can pin down precisely when they changed sporran badge, as the current pipe band seems to have a plain white metal thistle, as opposed to the boar's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Abbott Posted 23 March , 2014 Share Posted 23 March , 2014 I don't think it is Dollar Academy. I think it's the Pipes and Drums of Campbell College (Northern Ireland). View:- http://www.oldcampbellians.co.uk/events.aspx?dataid=328202 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 23 March , 2014 Share Posted 23 March , 2014 They're still wearing the old 'efficiency' diamond on their lower right cuff and in general I would agree that it's a school unit. Post-WWI Army Lists name Cadet/School units which are affiliated to local Territorial Battalions, that are not J.T.C. units and I also have copies of the British National Cadet Association List's which would help, but these are in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Abbott Posted 23 March , 2014 Share Posted 23 March , 2014 A friend, who went to Campbell College and who is also a piper (albeit in the 1970s) and played in the school band, remembers seeing old photos of the school pipe band. He thinks that is a photo of the Campbell College Pipe Band, "a long time ago". The uniform items all match what he remembers including the boars head (Campbell clan emblem) on the sporran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max7474 Posted 7 January , 2016 Share Posted 7 January , 2016 The uniforms match Campbell College pipes and drums. Although the school cadet force were badged to Royal Irish regts their pipe band has been going for 100 years and had the Scottish regtl dress distinctions as it the original picture. The OTC originally wore the badge pictured but the pipes had their own headress badge. There also exists a boars' head badge in chrome with the school title which matches the boar's head sporran badge pictured above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Abbott Posted 7 January , 2016 Share Posted 7 January , 2016 Yes, there are a number of photos of them on here:- http://www.oldcampbellians.co.uk/events.aspx?dataid=328202 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now