Early Trench Tactics in the French Army, J Krause

[bmac]

Wonder if anyone has read 'Early Trench Tactics in the French Army' by Dr Jonathan Krause? It is part of something called the Ashgate Studies in First World War History of which Dr John Bourne is the series editor. It looks interesting but I am more than a bit put off by the £65 price for a 198 page book. Krause is currently a lecturer in the Defence Studies Dept at King's College, London, so one expects some rigour. But, as an aside, I have never understood 'academic' book pricing. I assume they think other libraries/academic institutes will happily pay such prices but by pricing them thus they certainly restrict their readership amongst 'normal' people. As I get a 720 page book printed for c. £9 a copy (OK, a paperback) one wonders why a 198 page hardback needs to be £65. Gripe over.

[phil andrade]

But, as an aside, I have never understood 'academic' book pricing.

Perhaps it's a form of snobbery....only cognoscenti need apply syndrome. A terrible way of marketing. Heck, I'm just bitching because I haven't had the bottle to write anything myself !

Phil (PJA)

[CROONAERT]

It's practically just a one battle (2nd Artois) study, Bill, and is an 'overgrown' Phd thesis. Luckily, I borrowed a copy before considering purchase and, to be honest, found nothing new or of any particular revelation in it at all. It can be a little 'heavy' going too and , like most, is certainly not error-free.

I've got a particular interest in 2nd Artois, but still decided against a purchase as there are far more useful accounts (both of actualities and tactics) to be had for far less cost - especially if you're not put off by the French language.. No idea why it's priced so high, but IMO, money can be better utilised elsewhere.

Dave (that said, I suppose I would consider buying it if I found it for under £20 or so)

[bmac]

Thanks for that Dave, saved me some money there. A few pages are available through Google books which are useful. Wonder if the thesis is available somewhere? Will have to check.

[alougheed]

I think it is a case of selling to an institutional market rather than the public. I'm gaining some personal experience with that aspect of marketing myself. The public market is extremely limited, particularly for a niche topic like this one, so you have to base your price on the ability to earn a living from a very limited number of sales to academic institutions, perhaps on 500 sales or less. That is my suspicion anyway. I keep my alumni membership going and I get books like that from the university library because I can't afford to buy them all either. That is not meant to be as cynical as it probably sounds!

But early French tactics are a very interesting topic and I'm glad you posted about it here. The French 45th division (which I write about) fought on the Vimy Ridge sector prior to being transfered to the Ypres Salient in April 1915, so they left before 2nd Artois really got underway but it was an intensely active sector during their tour. Tactics were constantly evolving on that sector. Coming from a Canadian point of view, when we are told that the French lost 150,000 men trying to capture Vimy Ridge I don't think we get a sense of the innovation that was going on. It's nice to see people researching and writing about this.

[SWorrall]

It's probably to do with the Research Assessment Exercise (RAE) score of the author.

I can't pretend to fully understand it, but essentially an academic and the department the he / she work for score points for publishing books, articles, etc.

Each person given a tenured post will be required to have X books and Y articles published within a certain number of years. Thereby adding to the score of their department.

The Department is given additional funding dependent upon their score, a sort of payment by results exercise.

The twist is that you score more points for going with established academic publishers (Cambridge University Press ; Oxford U. P. ; Palgrave Macmillan ; Yale ; Harvard U. P., etc) and less points for choosing a popular, but non-academic-specialist publisher.

Since all departments wish to attract funding they need maximum point so they insist on their publication being done by a closed shop of publishing houses.

These then have a strangehold on the market, so they jack up the prices to the point where the punter cannot afford them. They would rather sell 100 at £100, than 2000 at £25.

These are publishing arms of state funded universites (in the U. K. anyway). Their parent Universities are paid for by the taxpayer, i.e. you and I, who cannot afford to buy the books that they publish.

If you want a download copy of a Doctoral Thesis, then investigate the British Library's ETHOS portal. Those of Dave Zabecki, Andy Simpson, Gary Sheffield, for example, (all names that Great War cognoscenti will be familiar with) can be downlioaded for free.

Worth noting that the published book version is a revised version of the Thesis, sometimes heavily so.

Simon.

[bmac]

Already checked Ethos and now joy but thanks for the explanation. As perversely daft as most of what goes on in this country when it comes to education in all its forms.

[jjkrause84]

It's practically just a one battle (2nd Artois) study, Bill, and is an 'overgrown' Phd thesis. Luckily, I borrowed a copy before considering purchase and, to be honest, found nothing new or of any particular revelation in it at all. It can be a little 'heavy' going too and , like most, is certainly not error-free.

If there are any errors, please don't hesitate to let me know. I'm sure some crept in, but I can't exactly read the book with an unbiased eye.

Best,

J. Krause

Ah, I should say that yes...Ashgate was chosen at least partially for career reasons. Without books published in academic presses it is very difficult to get a job in academia.

[David Filsell]

The academic book price thing is foolish. I have reviewed a number around the£65 mark. I am sure that with better marketing an publicity- and few are well publicised - they could achieve far better sales. Ok so they are small sellers, but so too are many mainstream books, particularly by new authors, and they come in far cheaper.

[RupertDubrecht]

very good book

[sjustice]

It's practically just a one battle (2nd Artois) study, Bill, and is an 'overgrown' Phd thesis. Luckily, I borrowed a copy before considering purchase and, to be honest, found nothing new or of any particular revelation in it at all. It can be a little 'heavy' going too and , like most, is certainly not error-free.

I've got a particular interest in 2nd Artois, but still decided against a purchase as there are far more useful accounts (both of actualities and tactics) to be had for far less cost - especially if you're not put off by the French language.. No idea why it's priced so high, but IMO, money can be better utilised elsewhere.

Dave (that said, I suppose I would consider buying it if I found it for under £20 or so)

Dave,

This is the first time I disagree with you. Early Trench Tactics could and should be a classic on the basis that it is anglophone. I recommend it to anyone who can't speak French and commend JK for this considerable addition to current knowledge. There is REAL insight and some gritty analysis which needs thoughtful consideration. I loved it.

Cheers,

Simon

[alougheed]

Hi everyone, nice to see people still talking about this one! It turns out a review I wrote of this book was published today by Canadian Military History Journal, you can find it here:

http://www.canadianmilitaryhistory.ca/review-of-jonathan-krauses-early-trench-tactics-in-the-french-army-the-second-battle-of-artois-may-june-1915/

[jjkrause84]

Dave,

This is the first time I disagree with you. Early Trench Tactics could and should be a classic on the basis that it is anglophone. I recommend it to anyone who can't speak French and commend JK for this considerable addition to current knowledge. There is REAL insight and some gritty analysis which needs thoughtful consideration. I loved it.

Cheers,

Simon

Keep telling yourself that...it'll never really cure your buyer's remorse.

[sjustice]

Keep telling yourself that...it'll never really cure your buyer's remorse.

I didn't say I bought it

Cheers,

Simon

[CROONAERT]

Dave,

. I recommend it to anyone who can't speak French and commend JK for this considerable addition to current knowledge. There is REAL insight and some gritty analysis which needs thoughtful consideration. I loved it.

Nowhere did I say that it wasn't commendable, Simon (it certainly is - especially for an English language book... my only gripe is that (in my opinion) it isn't £65 commendable, plus the fact that I can't say that I didn't learn or discover anything in particular that I hadn't already read about elsewhere - but then again, I have read and studied a shed load on the French army!)

Dave,

This is the first time I disagree with you

I'd certainly be disappointed in you if it was to be the last!

Dave

[CROONAERT]

If there are any errors, please don't hesitate to let me know.

Nothing particularly major and certainly nothing that doesn't appear in any 'official' account either, Jonathan. (And I wouldn't mention them on a public forum anyway... had enough authors sulking at me in the past to make me hesitant of mentioning them even in private to be honest!)

Dave (just to adjust the balance... I think it IS a damned good book (and my congratulations on it) - it's just a little steep for what it is (in my opinion only!))

[jjkrause84]

Nothing particularly major and certainly nothing that doesn't appear in any 'official' account either, Jonathan. (And I wouldn't mention them on a public forum anyway... had enough authors sulking at me in the past to make me hesitant of mentioning them even in private to be honest!)

Dave (just to adjust the balance... I think it IS a damned good book (and my congratulations on it) - it's just a little steep for what it is (in my opinion only!))

There's no reason to bite someone's head off for offering factual corrections. It's the very basis of academic research! Again, whether in private or in public, I welcome any corrections you may have.

The pricing, as you may have guessed, was not of my choosing.

[CROONAERT]

Just to quote from the review linked in an earlier post (as a general point, not specifically aimed at this book in particular)...

The editor of the Ashgate series notes that the books are meant to be read by a scholarly or educated lay audience.

Not a great comment by the editor...makes me feel a little excluded and that I have no real right in reading them!

Dave

[CROONAERT]

There's no reason to bite someone's head off for offering factual corrections. It's the very basis of academic research! Again, whether in private or in public, I welcome any corrections you may have.

The pricing, as you may have guessed, was not of my choosing.

Fair enough....and thanks for being so understanding - so many authors aren't.

I'm away for a few weeks from tomorrow, so at some point after then, I'll borrow a copy again, re-read (didn't make notes)and get back in touch. As mentioned, nothing major to worry about ... and I'm also amiable enough for you to disagree with my points in return! (I'm far from perfect....as my own (re-written 3 times and still not published as I'm not 100% happy yet) book proves!!!)

Best wishes,

Dave