John Terraine-Max Hastings

[Tuscania1918]

Could anyone give me suggestions on the best books written by these two men. I am looking for the books to focus on the British in WWI and WWII. Thanks.

[aengland]

Well I haven't read a bad John Terraine book yet..... so any would be a good place to start!

I particularly liked 'Douglas Haig: The Educated Soldier', and 'White Heat: The New Warfare, 1914-18', but his writing on the Second World War is limited for me..... having said that, one good one I have read is 'The Right of the Line: The Royal Air Force in the European War 1939-1945'

Unfortunately the only Max Hastings book I have ploughed through is that on the Falklands War.... so unable to help you there

Andrew

[Guest exuser1]

As an overall look and considering when written Max Hastings Bomber is good ,well received at the time by veterans ,it covers a huge subject covering the whole of the campaign in Europe from the first day of the war , good use of anecdotal evidence .

[Ian Riley]

I agree: John Terraine's Douglas Haig: The Educated Soldier. Unfortunately he has not referenced his sources as much as might be hoped but I don't think there has been serious dispute to their veracity unlike some other works (by another author) on Haig. The writing is excellent and although I think he was relying on published sources rather than a great amount of archival research but at the time (pre-internet) this was not easily available. You might try Terraine's Mons: Retreat to Victory: the act of picking this book off the shelf in the school library in 1962 has subsequently caused me a lot of trouble and cost me a lot of time and money!

Does Max Hastings write books? Doesn't an editorial team do it for him? I withdraw this comment before the lawyers reach me but I was once phoned up by a chap describing himself as the research assistant to a very famous man of title with an enquiry and it seemed clear to me that this editorial assistant was in fact effectively a ghost writer. Doubtless the great man tweaked a few phrases here and there and possibly had determined the structure of the book. My lips are sealed any further on the matter.

At the weekend, I was at a study day in Birmingham on Terraine (it's the 50th anniversary of the publication of the Educated Soldier) and someone (it might have been the President of the WFA or the Professor of Conflict Studies at Wolverhampton) suggested actually listening to the script of the BBC Great War series of the 1960s. There you are listening to work from the pens of (mainly) John Terraine and Correlli Barnett. The point was that the images were so powerful that, combined with the music, the actual text was often overlooked.

Ian

[Ian Riley]

For some reason, I am unable to edit the post above. I should make it clear that the person 'of title' whose assistant phoned me was NOT Max Hastings. Phew ... don't want to go the same way as the lady who tweeted about Lord McAlpine (it wasn't him either!)

Ian

[Jonathan Saunders]

I'd ditch the idea of reading Terraine or Hastings and proceed direct to the works of the eminent Peter Hart (who does reference his multitudinous sources)

http://www.amazon.co...rt/e/B001H9PVQ6

[Steven Broomfield]

Crawler.

[Ian Riley]

Might as well ditch Shakespeare then and go straight to Osborne, Shaffer (both), Russell, Wesker et al.

Ian

Terraine did reference later books much more thoroughly I am told; the White Heat of Technology is awaiting a reading.

[Jonathan Saunders]

Terraine did reference later books much more thoroughly I am told; the White Heat of Technology is awaiting a reading.

Yes Terraine did but not TES, which is pretty unforgiveable for an academic even back in the early 1960s. I wouldnt recommend TES, as much as anything, because I think there are now far better biographies on Haig available (with sources).

But you still cant beat Peter Hart for a stonking read ...

Regards,

Jonathan S

[Ian Riley]

Jonathan,

Perhaps I am not making my point well enough. Of course, Terraine's work on Haig has been succeeded by a host of books, some good and some not so good and some appallling. The leader (in the good category) must now be The Chief by Gary Sheffield which should probably be read with Harris's book for comparative purposes. Sheffield, like Newton, stands on the shoulders of giants. The Educated Soldier is an important point in the historiography and remains of considerable importance in understanding how the debate on Haig's merits or otherwise has developed. it also a good read and, in my opinion, a work of literary merit.

Terraine was not an academic in the traditional sense. Indeed he was working for the BBC when he wrote the book (Reference: his own foreword to TES) . The Educated Soldier may (read: does) lack academic apparatus but Terraine wrote as a writer to earn a living (I can't imagine the Beeb paid too handsomely) and continued to do so. It is possible that Terraine never saw it as an 'academic' work but it then acquired its own importance and as such, yes, it would have been helpful to have a greater degree of referencing. I think we also need to consider Terraine's moral courage in writing as he did against a background of Oh! What a Lovely War!, Clark's Donkeys and the popular feeling of the time post-Suez.

The original poster did ask specifically about Terraine and not about, for all his merits, Peter Hart

Ian

[Jonathan Saunders]

I cant help it, I am a big Peter Hart fan and enjoy referencing to his source material.

Regards,

Jonathan S

[WilliamRev]

I understand that the late Richard Holmes had a huge admiration for John Terraine and his breadth of knowledge on the Great War.

I would recommend John Terrain's To Win a War, which not only chronicles the complicated sequence of events in 1918, but explains why what happened, happened. Generals, and politicians pressured by a weary public whose votes they would soon need, locked horns in power struggles. JT's beef is that the war was a genuine victory, and was achieved by the British army (later edit: including especially the Canadians and Anzacs), and not politicians or the Americans.

John Terraine's book of essays The Western Front 1914-1918 (a Pen and Sword paperback, available very cheaply second-hand on Amazon - using the forum's money-raising link of course) looks very boring, but is an absolute revelation, and should be read by everyone seriously interested in the Great War.

William.

[hazelclark]

I understand that the late Richard Holmes had a huge admiration for John Terraine and his breadth of knowledge on the Great War.

I would recommend John Terrain's To Win a War, which not only chronicles the complicated sequence of events in 1918, but explains why what happened, happened. Generals, and politicians pressured by a weary public whose votes they would soon need, locked horns in power struggles. JT's beef is that the war was a genuine victory, and was achieved by the British army (later edit: including especially the Canadians and Anzacs), and not politicians or the Americans.

John Terraine's book of essays The Western Front 1914-1918 (a Pen and Sword paperback, available very cheaply second-hand on Amazon - using the forum's money-raising link of course) looks very boring, but is an absolute revelation, and should be read by everyone seriously interested in the Great War.

William.

Just finished this for the second time and I agree. I thought that for the time it was relatively even handed also.

Hazel

[P.B.]

Hi Everyone

The next 5 years will see a plethora of new WWI books -80 in the next year at least annouced by "mainstream" publishers, with at some 15-20 titles being touted as "major" contributions to WWI history- and this will obviously see some historians, like Max Hastings, who haven't previously tackled the Great War releasing books.

Hastings' actually spent his "gap year" working as a research assistant on the BBC's "The Great War" in 1963/4, and his work on the causes and course of the war up to the end of 1914 is released in September:

http://www.harpercol...s-9780007398577

Hope this is of some interest, all the best

Paul.

[Ian Riley]

Hi Everyone

Hastings' actually spent his "gap year" working as a research assistant on the BBC's "The Great War" in 1963/4, and his work on the causes and course of the war up to the end of 1914 is released in September:

Paul.

I had not realised that, most interesting. I will be interested to speak about this to another (then) junior member of the team at the weekend.

Ian

[David Filsell]

Is this a sponsored Peter Hart thread?