Stretcher bearers

[petestarling]

With regards to awards to stretcher bearers, the bearers under Capt Noel Chavasse VC*, MC 10th Bn Kings Liverpool Regiment were quite well rewarded so I suppose it depends on the person responsible for writing the recommendation. Not all MO's would bother I suspect and if they did I very often suspect they were not sent up the chain of command by the Adjutant or CO. Even in my time in the RAMC I have heard officers say that there would be no awards written up as we were just doing our job.

Pete

[Marilyne]

One of many chats with an uncle in his nineties brought up the name of a local man with the nickname "conchie" to the day he died.

My uncle said with great conviction "conchies, oh aye, brave as lions carrying stretchers and supplies in unbelievable conditions, with us hiding in trenches,but refused to even defend themselves. Should have been special awards to them."

Takes a lot of guts to go into a war zone unarmed !!

[Muerrisch]

Centurion, you do make some good points within your posts and appear to have an excellent amount of knowledge to pass on to those willing to learn. It is therefore disappointing that your posts appear to be somewhat sharp and to the point on occasion. Everyone who posts on the forum is hear to deepen their knowledge on the subject of the Great War, not all are able or have the knowledge to research through the old posts. Sometimes revisiting an old subject can bring new discussions and information to the fore, which is after all what we look at the forum for. Best regards. Dave

I would have thought that "to the point" was a virtue ............ perhaps its an age thing, like spelling here when we mean here and hear when we mean hear.

I do hope this is to the point, and all power to Centurion's elbow, not that he needs any backing from me.

[Haven't had a good Grump for ages, and the above is only third rate].

[seaforths]

I visited IWM North today. I didn't expect to find myself there! I knew it was in the Manchester area but not the exact location. I went to Salford Quays yesterday to see Evita at the Lowry Theatre and was pleasantly surprised to see the IWM across the water from the theatre and decided to return in the morning.

We thoroughly enjoyed the exhibition 'Saving Lives: Frontline Medicine in a Century of Conflict' such a wealth of interesting artefacts relating to wars and conflicts. I can highly recommend it and it was certainly great to put things into perspective for me regarding the equipment they used.

Something that caught my attention was two pictures shown close together. One was a WW1 hospital under whtie canvas. A painting by John Singer Sargent. (this doesn't quite do the original justice: http://jssgallery.org/Paintings/The_Interior_of_A_Hospital_Tent.htm). The other more recent photograph of the RAMC working in Afghanistan, under white canvas. In nearly a hundred years something hasn't changed. Also another haunting painting being exhibited of a wounded man in gas mask being treated by another (possibly a stretcher bearer/RAMC) also in a gas mask, by Austin Spare.

[SilverFox100]

I also visited Salford Quays a little while ago, saw the IWM there and decided to visit. Well worth the effort. The picture is very evocative. My great uncle was gassed in the 1st war and I have been doing some research on him (and thanks to GWF) finding various things out about him and what he must have gone through. I know he spent some time in one of these field hospitals before going to an actual hospital well behind the lines and then England. Never really recovered from it. The more I read now of what the stretcher bearers did during the war the more one has to feel immensely proud of them, putting their lives at risk in recovering the wounded. A book I have just finished, Somme Mud, by EPF Lynch, relates hie experience in the trenches during the Battle of the Somme, where A party of 4 German stretcher bearers had gone out into no man's land to recover, what they had initially thought was wounded, but turned out to be a gun or mortar from one of the shell holes. The Aussies in the trench were ordered to fire at them when it became obvious what the Germans were doing, lots of hesitance because this was not the normal practice obviously, but a few of the Germans were killed. For a while after that Lynch recounts that every time stretcher bearers went out after that to recover wounded the Germans shot at them and killed quite a few. Has any body else read of this happening in any other spheres or times of the war?

[seaforths]

For a while after that Lynch recounts that every time stretcher bearers went out after that to recover wounded the Germans shot at them and killed quite a few. Has any body else read of this happening in any other spheres or times of the war?

I did read in a book that when involved in 3rd Ypres, the Germans came out with white flags to recover their dead and wounded they were immediately fired upon. I was extremely shocked at reading this. Not only were they fired upon but flares were sent up and an artillery strike summoned. My immediate thoughts were; what a bloodthirsty bunch!

I did take the trouble to go back to the diaries and read what was occurring at that time. It transpired that the Germans were using their medics and stretcher bearers as human shields. They were quite clearly and visibly preparing in very large numbers to carry out a counter attack. My immediate thoughts were that perhaps the author should have been more explicit in explaining the situation better.

[duncanpowell]

My grandfather, Reginald James Powell was in RAMC and attached to 1/6th Kings Liverpool, which I know from the landing date on his medal card (25.2.15) and his Liverpool heritage.

From the battalion diary I know he then must have served at 2nd Ypres May '15 and then gone down to the Somme in 1916. He was invalided out towards the end of 1916 having been hit in the jaw while stretcher bearing. If he survived to September, he must have been in the Guillemont battles, then High Wood, Flers and Gueudecourt and I am assuming could well have been hit around the Gird Trench area.

Of course this is all assumption. He could have been wounded earlier and spent some time recovering in France before being sent home. Nevertheless I have cycled to Flanders 4 times and the Somme 7 times to retrace his probable steps - every field, wood and battle area.

He died young in the early 1950's, as did so many of his peers, so I never met him.

Don't know why he joined RAMC in 1914, I just know he must have been a very brave man. He could have waited for conscription like so many others...

Don't suppose there's any way of finding out more about his exact movements?

Duncan

[Guest]

You never know what might yet surface. Often one small clue leads to another. He may have been medically trained before the war, VAD possibly? I know two Gordon Highlanders, who were members of the local VAD, and transferred to RAMC at some point. I guess if you had any training in this field, you might not have had an option but to join the RAMC.

Mik

[Garmoran]

Did very many of the bearers receive medals for the work that they did during the war and the fairly obvious bravery they showed? Did they have rifles and were they trained to shoot them? Were the bearers generally from the various brigades that were fighting or were they members of RAMC?

Two Lovat Scouts, 2083 Pte. L. McDougall and 2217 Pte. A. McLellan, received Military Medals "for conspicuous gallantry as a stretcher

bearer. He was wounded while carrying a wounded man to the dressing station." (London Gazette 29631 page 6149 ). So far I have been unable to find out anything more about this particular act of bravery.

[Guest]

They both were awarded the DCM I think? I don't have Worldwide Ancestry so can't access DCM record, but have seen article that mentions both in the British Newspaper Archives. Try check Gazette for the DCM Citations.

Mike

[Guest]

McDougall is mentioned in Gazette Issue 29608 published on the 2 June 1916. Page 31 of 52

I'm still not certain DCM, but I think so.

Mike

[Guest]

Silverfox, if you're still about would appreciate if you could Tag this thread " Stretcher-bearers "

Mike

[SilverFox100]

Silverfox, if you're still about would appreciate if you could Tag this thread " Stretcher-bearers "

Mike

Hi Mike I am still here. Would do but I admit I haven't yet tagged a thread. How do I do that?

Mike

[Guest]

Hi Mike I am still here. Would do but I admit I haven't yet tagged a thread. How do I do that?

Mike

Just go to Edit, then Use Full Editor then in the Topic Tags box add Stretcher-bearers, remember add the comma to complete the Tag, then you can add 9 more if you wish. Once you have done that " Stretcher-bearers will have a wee sub-forum all of its own, which has got to be good?

Cheers Mike. Any probs pm me

[SilverFox100]

Just go to Edit, then Use Full Editor then in the Topic Tags box add Stretcher-bearers, remember add the comma to complete the Tag, then you can add 9 more if you wish. Once you have done that " Stretcher-bearers will have a wee sub-forum all of its own, which has got to be good?

Cheers Mike. Any probs pm me

I'll pm you tomorrow Mike

Mike

[SilverFox100]

I'll pm you tomorrow Mike

Mike

Hi Mike trying to pm you but you appear to be unable to accept it

Mike

[Guest]

sorted. Join me in chat if you like?

Mike

[SilverFox100]

sorted. Join me in chat if you like?

Mike

Hi Mike I'm in the chat room. Need to ask you about the Topic Tag box

Mike

[Garmoran]

They both were awarded the DCM I think? I don't have Worldwide Ancestry so can't access DCM record, but have seen article that mentions both in the British Newspaper Archives. Try check Gazette for the DCM Citations.

Yes, it was DCM not MM. My mistake! Any idea in which publication in the British Newspaper Archives they were mentioned?

[Guest]

Give me half an hour or so and I will find them, hopefully.

Do you subscribe? Can give link direct to page if you like?

Mike

[Guest]

Dundee Courier Thursday 2083 McDougall 30/12/1915 Click

Dundee Courier Saturday 2083 McDougall 3/6/1916 Click

Dundee Courier Friday 2083 McDougall 14/7/1916 Click

Dundee Courier Thursday 2217 McLellan 22/6/1916 Click

Mike

[SilverFox100]

I am about half way through reading Walter Williamson's 'A Tommy at Ypres'. On page 156, and I quote

'Many cases were known to us of many men being slightly wounded, and having been seen on their way to the dressing stations, after which, all trace of them had been lost.'.......'This was accounted for to a great extent, by the fact that the enemy had made deliberate attack by shell fire and aeroplane bombs, on every dressing station or casualty clearing station that they could locate. Many of these places, with rows of stretcher cases and walking cases waiting to be attended to, had been utterly destroyed, the staffs killed and records blown to atoms'.

Has anybody read confirmation of this in any official histories, war diaries etc, what a shaming thing to do and especially so if it was both the Central Powers and the Allied Powers condoning this action on the injured of the battles.

Regards. Mike

[seaforths]

I am about half way through reading Walter Williamson's 'A Tommy at Ypres'. On page 156, and I quote

'Many cases were known to us of many men being slightly wounded, and having been seen on their way to the dressing stations, after which, all trace of them had been lost.'.......'This was accounted for to a great extent, by the fact that the enemy had made deliberate attack by shell fire and aeroplane bombs, on every dressing station or casualty clearing station that they could locate. Many of these places, with rows of stretcher cases and walking cases waiting to be attended to, had been utterly destroyed, the staffs killed and records blown to atoms'.

Has anybody read confirmation of this in any official histories, war diaries etc, what a shaming thing to do and especially so if it was both the Central Powers and the Allied Powers condoning this action on the injured of the battles.

Regards. Mike

Possibly trench rumour. They spread very quickly and then myth became a fact in their eyes. Just as it did in the Canadian crucifixion incident at Ypres. Sure hospitals, dressing stations etc were hit but I don't think they were singled out as primary targets. Main routes for troop and logistics movement were primary targets and unfortunately, these routes were also used to evacuate casualties.