Wipers Times

[keithjk]

The recent 'historical drama' series The White Queen was followed/accompanied by a factual documentary called The Real White Queen, and there is surely scope for Hislop to make/present such a documentary on the Wipers Times.

There are already plenty of books available on the subject of 'The Wipers Times'. I'm sure a study of these will answer any questions.

Personally, I thoroughly enjoyed the programme on Wednesday. It really conveyed the humour of the work, and illustrated the sometimes difficult conditions under which it was printed. I also suspected that it would soon have the anoraks crawling out from behind their filing cabinets. Yes, it contained some factual errors, but even William Shakespeare's plays were probably guilty of that.

Let's just take it for what it was, a well-written and well-acted drama loosely based on fact.

Keith

[Fattyowls]

Good points Keith; if I remember correctly Shakespeare's grasp of the geography of the Italian penninsula was shocking. He'd not get away with that today...........

Pete.

[CarylW]

Very well put Keith. I looked forward to and enjoyed the programme very much. I also 'got' and really appreciated (and still do) the humour of the Wipers Times when I read them a while ago. I'm not, and never have been a public schoolboy and I don't have a beard either

[Black Maria]

That would be one for the birthday/Ch*******s/ or 'any excuse' list Blackmaria. Would be an insightful read on so many levels

Cheers Jim

Agreed Jim, I was left wanting to know more about the man and his life, quite a tale he had to tell, I should think.

[Liz in Eastbourne]

There are already plenty of books available on the subject of 'The Wipers Times'. I'm sure a study of these will answer any questions.

Well, I suppose there are plenty of editions - but that doesn't negate Mick's point that there's scope for a Hislop factual programme about the Wipers Times. Plenty of people won't read those books. I've got an edition with a Hislop foreword, watched the programme on i-player very late on Wednesday night and thought it was terrific, and I'd still be interested in a documentary if they ever make one.

Liz

[Jim Hastings]

Agreed Jim, I was left wanting to know more about the man and his life, quite a tale he had to tell, I should think.

Definitely; I'm usually drawn to Other Ranks memoirs but would certainly read his diary if published. Must have been an interesting man to have talked to. Wonder if there is any evidence of his men's thoughts of him?

Fingers crossed its one the family choose to share

[martin_sole]

What were the collar badges that all the men were wearing in the programme?

[Fattyowls]

Very well put Keith. I looked forward to and enjoyed the programme very much. I also 'got' and really appreciated (and still do) the humour of the Wipers Times when I read them a while ago. I'm not, and never have been a public schoolboy and I don't have a beard either

Caryl, I'm heartened to hear this. I'm keen to read more on the Wipers Times; and although I was not and am unlikely ever to be a public schoolboy I can grow a beard. Do you think this would enhance my enjoyment?

Equally I would love to see Ian Hislop do something about the Wipers Times; for a funny man he does serious very very well.

Pete.

[Jim Hastings]

What were the collar badges that all the men were wearing in the programme?

Pioneers badges Martin

[martin_sole]

Thanks Jim. Was collar badges on OR a pioneers thing then?

[Jim Hastings]

I'm afraid I'm not an expert on insignia Martin, only found out about the special collar badges for pioneer designated battalions of an infantry regiment when I looked into 5th Royal Sussex (Cinque Ports) who were converted into pioneers after Aubers Ridge in '15. 12th Sherwood Foresters were the Divisional Pioneers for 24th Div

Nice touch of accuracy to the programme

Cheers

Jim

[Pighills]

That'll be down to Taff then, and a blummin good job he did too!

[squirrel]

Seconded.

[Charles Fair]

Entertaining as it was, it did not go down entirely satisfactorily in the Wills household.

No sooner were the Poperinghe Fancies mentioned than the rivet counting trainspotter in Mrs Wills emerged. Vaseline and Glycerine.! Huh!! Nothing to do the the "Fancies" - they were the stars of the "Follies". The "Fancies" were created in the wake of the Follies as "hot rivals".

Now where is my ABC of GS wagon numbers ........

I have just watched it and thoroughly enjoyed it. I beg to differ with Mrs Wills, unless she has more accurate info than I do. I thumbed through my 1973 edition of the Wipers Times (pub Peter Davies with a useful introductory essay and extensive endnotes by Patrick Beaver). Note 6 on page 333 places Glycerine and Vaseline with the Fancies, 6th Division Concert Troupe. They clearly were as talentless as the script made out. The film seemed to me to be pretty consistent with this edition. Its certainly set the bar for the forthcoming barrage of WW1 dramas and dram-documentaries.

[Steven Broomfield]

Thanks Jim. Was collar badges on OR a pioneers thing then?

Yes: crossed pick and rifle, worn by all pioneer battalions.

[stripeyman]

It was recorded at my house and so have just seen it. This is not a complaint but an observation. When the first press was destroyed there was a shot of the poor machine smashed up. However on part of the wreckage was placed a 'jaw' from a capstan lathe which has nothing to do with printing press's, if you have recorded it have a look it is unmistakable.

[IPT]

It was recorded at my house

I see that you and Mrs G have gone for an "Ypres" decorative theme.

It could catch on amongst the smart set, I expect.

[CarylW]

Caryl, I'm heartened to hear this. I'm keen to read more on the Wipers Times; and although I was not and am unlikely ever to be a public schoolboy I can grow a beard. Do you think this would enhance my enjoyment?

Equally I would love to see Ian Hislop do something about the Wipers Times; for a funny man he does serious very very well.

Pete.

He certainly does Pete. A serious documentary about the Wipers times produced and presented by him would certainly also be worth watching. I'm hoping the BBC will show the excellent Not Forgotten series again and do we dare to dream, also commission another series.

On my Christmas book wish list that might just bankrupt family members (well they can save up ) is ​The Soldiers Press: Trench Journals in the First World War. Graham Seal. A snip (gulp) at 48 quid on Amazon (£36 Kindle edition) Does anyone own a copy?

[simonharley]

Does the bombastic Lieutenant-Colonel Howfield have any basis in fact? It seemed rather unlikely that such an officer would be so utterly OTT with a superior office (Palin's Mitford).

Apparently a general Mitford actually existed. Has anyone identified him?

It was watchable but I can't say I particularly enjoyed it. I'd much rather have a good chortle at the original magazines (who can forget the glorious BOVOX adverts?).

Simon

[Jim Hastings]

He certainly does Pete. A serious documentary about the Wipers times produced and presented by him would certainly also be worth watching. I'm hoping the BBC will show the excellent Not Forgotten series again and do we dare to dream, also commission another series.

On my Christmas book wish list that might just bankrupt family members (well they can save up ) is ​The Soldiers Press: Trench Journals in the First World War. Graham Seal. A snip (gulp) at 48 quid on Amazon (£36 Kindle edition) Does anyone own a copy?

To see 'Not Forgotten' again would be brilliant, there is only limited coverage on Youtube last time I looked. Hislop presents such serious and emotional matters so well. I liked it also when he followed his WW1 ancestor in a later television series

[andygrain@aol.com]

There is a very solid study of Roberts's Bn - "12th (Pioneer) Battalion Sherwood Foresters 1914-1918 with the 24th Division by Cliff Housley & Justin Leivars published by Milquest Publications, 83 Draycott Road, Sawley, LOng Eaton, NG10 3BL ISBN 978-0-9529648-8-9. I bought my copy at, I think, Zonnebeke Museum a couple of years ago.

Ironically, the picture of Frederick Roberts on p77 shows that he looked very like the humourless staff colonel!

There is no photo of Brigadier Mitford who was apparently comd 72nd Inf Bde in 24th Div.

From the book we find that not only did Roberts get the MC, gazetted on 1 Jan 1917 but so did Jack Pearson. In fact Pearson was made acting CO in Feb 1917 followed by Roberts in March. Pearson and Roberts then took it in turn to command the Bn for the rest of the war. Pearson was actually awarded a DSO in Sept 1918.

At least I think this is the Pearson in the film. There is another officer in the Bn, Lt Noel Gervis Pearson who was also awarded the MC in 1916 and then the DSO in 1918 but was seemingly only a Lieutenant.

I found that the book offered a pretty comprehensive picture of the work of pioneer battalions - or at least this pioneer battalion. We are not looking at glamour here. On the other hand, whilst there is no index a rough totting up of the roll of honour suggests that 14 officers and about 200 other ranks were killed during the war which is relatively benign as a Line Battalion would reckon to lose its strength of about 8-900 each year.

I enjoyed the film but would agree that the script was rather slack though I thought that the music hall scenes depicting articles from the paper worked very well. Generally I thought that Blackadder had much more grip and bite.Given the failings of script and character, I was surprised that the critical classes seem to have given it such good reviews (Telegraph, Independent) which perhaps suggests how little they know of the subject. After all, the idea of a Brigadier addressing a Captain by his first name is just one of the many absurdities in the film. One of the others was in the opening scenes when these scavengers passed up a b****y great metal door lying on the ground!

But it's good to see that this approach has had good feedback both from the critical classes and members of this forum!

[martin_sole]

Are you referring to the scene where they were inspected by the staff officer?

I think his surname was supposed to be Bobby. He's credited as ADC Bobby.

Not as funny as Captain Darling tho

[spof]

Does the bombastic Lieutenant-Colonel Howfield have any basis in fact? It seemed rather unlikely that such an officer would be so utterly OTT with a superior office (Palin's Mitford).

Apparently a general Mitford actually existed. Has anyone identified him?

It was watchable but I can't say I particularly enjoyed it. I'd much rather have a good chortle at the original magazines (who can forget the glorious BOVOX adverts?).

Simon

Nov 1916 Army List under Commands and Staff

Mitford, Hon. Brig-Gen (temp Brig Gen) B.R. CB DSO ret. pay (Res of Officers)

The B matches that initial shown on his case too.

[connaughtranger]

You're not alone. We're so used to seeing great ideas poorly executed that it came as a surprise to find a flawless execution of what seemed a really weak script.

Actors - brilliant

Production Design - brilliant

Lighting and cinematography - brilliant

Direction - brilliant (the Music Hall scenes were very well done)

but....the script was just a bit rubbish IMHO. All the characters were 2-dimensional and a bit too cliched

Smartarse public school subaltern - check

Bluff NCO with regional accent - check

Dim but endearing young lad - check

Spluttering Colonel Blimp - check

I felt that lots of lines had been written simply for the pun/gag at the end, which is what Hislop is very good at doing but it seemed somewhat over-egged. I half expected to hear ba-dum / tshhh at the end of some of them

Hislop is a man of many talents, but screenwriting just ain't one of them.

Enjoyed it but found some of the dialogue rather stilted which reminded me of "Journey's End" minus the Cheer-ho

[connaughtranger]

Nothing on IMDB, but they do quote Paul Kennedy as playing "Winston Churchill", stretch of the imagination???????

Sam

Churchill was in the Ploegsteert sector in the first 3 months of 1916 as CO of 6th RSF, but they were pulled out of the line and amalgamated with the 7th Battalion in April/May & he lost his command. Churchill was renowned for sallying forth in No-Man's Land, though I doubt if he would ever have been able to venture into another division's sector with permission.