RNCVR Posted 22 September , 2004 Share Posted 22 September , 2004 Hi all, I have attached a photo of an Imperial Russian Officer - the reverse of the photo is dated 1917. I would like to know his unit, rank & his medals, & will also attach closeups of his left & right epaulettes, medals, & cap badge. The medals appear to be the Cross of St George & perhaps the Czar Nicholas Medal for Zeal, but I have no idea what the third one is - it appears to be either a Military school or University jetton. If any one could help please? Thanks, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 22 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 22 September , 2004 Here is a close up of his left epaulette & medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 22 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 22 September , 2004 A closeup of his right epaulette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 22 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 22 September , 2004 A closeup of his cap badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 22 September , 2004 Share Posted 22 September , 2004 RNCVR, Doesn't look to be an officer at all, at least commissioned. The ranks appears to be "Bombardir Navodchik" or Bombardier Layer of Field Artillery. His unit might be the 11th Artillery Brigade. If the 11th, they were part of the 11th Inf. Div. and were stationed at Dubno and Lutsk. The 11th was part of the XI Corps. The badge looks to be a breast badge associated with many units. There is an excellent Russian language stdy of these badges. Unfortunately I do not have a copy. The cap badge should probably be the Romanov colours of Black and orange, even at this date. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 24 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 24 September , 2004 Thank you Joe, thats very interesting - how do you know he is not an officer? I must admit I know next to nothing about Imperial Russian rank & insignia. Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 24 September , 2004 Share Posted 24 September , 2004 RNCVR, The Pogony (shoulder Strap) is to an Other rank/NCO. The monogram is a crossed cannon with what should be the artillery Bde number underneath. This looks to be an 11. The wide stripe up the center is red and crossed be a yellow stripe. This denotes a Bombardier Layer of Artillery. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 24 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 24 September , 2004 Thanks for the information Joe, if you know of a book in English that describes Czarist ranks & insignia pls let me know, I would like to learn more about them. Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 25 September , 2004 Share Posted 25 September , 2004 Bryan, According to my references, Joe is right on the money on his description based on the shoulder straps. Another identifying feature is the NCO's cap cockard. An officer's would be serrated around the outer edge. See the attached picture that shows an officer, NCO and enlisted man's (also an enlisted reservist cap cross) cockard side by side. Best regards, Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 25 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 25 September , 2004 Thanks for the response on the Imperial Russian cap badges Chip. I didnot know there were different badges for different ranks. Did the Regiments all wear the same cap badge? Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 25 September , 2004 Share Posted 25 September , 2004 Bryan, Yes, I believe that these cockards were worn by all troops of the army and navy. There may have been more than one size, depending on the particular piece of headgear. The only other cockard that I am aware of is that of the military official, which looks like the officers, with a serrated edge, but is round, not oval. I don't have one or I would posted it as well. Best regards, Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 25 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 25 September , 2004 Hi Chip, Those cap badges are called COCKARDS?? I have never heard of this term before. Do you have any thoughts on his medals?? Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckman Posted 28 September , 2004 Share Posted 28 September , 2004 Thanks for the information Joe,if you know of a book in English that describes Czarist ranks & insignia pls let me know, I would like to learn more about them. Bryan So would I, if anyone has suggestions. Bryan, you may be more familiar with the term as "cockade" - the Imperial and National insignias on German caps are examples of the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 28 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2004 Thanks Duckman, yes I am familiar with the term COCKADE, I had never heard of COCKARD before tho, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 29 September , 2004 Share Posted 29 September , 2004 Bryan, Cockard must be an American thing. I don't think anyone here calls them cockades. Maybe we use it because the German work is Kokarde. In my German dictionary the definition of Kokarde is cockade. Anyway, I know what you mean when you say cockade. Andrew Mollo's book on the uniforms of WWI has a written description or Russian ranks, but no pictures. The Liliane and Fred Funken books have pictures and descriptions of the basic ranks. If that is all you want, I could post a picture of the shoulder straps of the army. I have several references in Russian and German that go into a lot more detail. Let me know what you would like. Regarding the medals, I also think that they are the 4th class St.George Cross for bravery and the other could be either the St.George Medal for bravery, the Medal for Bravery, the Medal for Zeal or the Lifesaving Medal. The obverse of these medals are all the same in appearance. Only the inscription on the reverse would tell you which it was. I have seen the badge before, but I could not find it in my reference. It could be a regimental badge or perhaps some other commemorative piece. Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 3 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2004 Thanks Chip. I had not rec'd notification that you had replied & only picked the post up this am, as I was about to post another here - I was trolling ebay last evg & see this item 2274007314 - its a set of Imperial Russian Officers cockades similar to the one you illustrated on Sep 25. They look nice but very pricey indeed!! Yes, if you might post the rank insignia photos from the Funken book that would be nice. I would like to know more about Imperial Russian ranks as I see photos of Imperial Russian soldiers every so often & it wold be nice to know their rank structure. I thought the medals were the Cross of St. George & perhaps the Medal for Bravery or Zeal - I guess on the medal one would not know unless the reverse was readable. Thanks Chip & apologies for slow reply! Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 3 October , 2004 Share Posted 3 October , 2004 Bryan, I took a look at Funken and though the Russian boards are in color, they are number coded, so without the code they would not mean much to you. Next I looked in Zwegintzoff's Uniforms of the Russian Army 1914 and found the attached picture. It actually gives more variations and there is a brief description under each board, but they are in Russian and French. The French is regonizable, if you can see it. I blew the picture up to the limit in size, but they are still tough to read. Suffice it to say that the ranks start at the upper left with the General Field Marshall and go down to the plain white strap in the center, the "Soldat de 2e classe". The rest are military school and cadet corps ranks. The bottom row represents specialty insignia, like one-year-volunteers, gun layer, bugler, etc. I hope this helps. If you want, I would be willing to make scans of the Funken material along with the captions and e-mail them to you. Best regards, Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 3 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2004 Thanks Chip - altho I see what you mean about reading the captions! French is no problem for me & I know an elderly lady who can read cryllic script well. Actually the photo is hers, its a relative of hers who died in the 1920's when she was very young. So if you could send me scans of both Funken & Zwegintzoffs that would be great. my e mail is- rncvr@sympatico.ca Dont make the pics too large as I wish to print them this end. Thanks very much in advance Chip for all of your help - very much appreciated! Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 3 October , 2004 Share Posted 3 October , 2004 Bryan, OK, I will get the pictures to you soon. By the way, I took a look at the items that you mentioned on ebay and they are very different from the cockades that I posted earlier. The insignia for sale are stars from helmets of the Guard. These enameled stars are quite scarce and go on the front of prewar parade helmets of these elite units. The cockades that I have shown are relatively common and sell typically for less than $50.00 each. Be careful, however, if you wish to purchase one, as they have been reproduced. Best regards, Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now