BeppoSapone Posted 25 September , 2004 Share Posted 25 September , 2004 This photo of a DLI soldier, with a wound stripe, and his Australian friend was taken at the 'Rembrandt Studios' in Queen's Arcade, Leeds. Can anyone, with more knowledge of the way that colours appear when in black and white photo's, say which two colours the Australians' colour patch is? From the rectangular shape of the patch he is in 1st Australian Division. Can we get it down to Battalion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 25 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 25 September , 2004 Sorry, am trying again for the photo. This worked in a place to play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 25 September , 2004 Share Posted 25 September , 2004 The upper line is very light, the lower one is darker. Could it be white on green, in which case 4th Battalion 1st Division? There appears a light coloured something on the lower bar. I think the 4th Battalion badge was solid green. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 25 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 25 September , 2004 The upper line is very light, the lower one is darker. Could it be white on green, in which case 4th Battalion 1st Division? There appears a light coloured something on the lower bar. I think the 4th Battalion badge was solid green. Robert Thanks for that Robert. You could be right. Lets see if others think it's green too? I have a chart that shows all the colour patches of the infantry battalions of the AIF, so will be able to identify the unit no matter what colour it turns out to be. When I saw this card for sale on ebay I thought that the "lighter coloured something" was a brass "A for Anzac", (to signify that the wearer had been at Gallipoli). Now that I have the actual card in front of me I think that the lighter thing was just a trick of the light! Cheers Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 26 September , 2004 Share Posted 26 September , 2004 Tony, The rectangle shaped patch denotes the 1st Division. Each Infantry Brigade was denoted by a particular colour. A solid green rectangle being the 1st Infantry Brigade, red the 2nd Infantry Brigade, light blue the 3rd Brigade, dark blue the 4th Brigade. Each Brigade had the Brigade colour on the lower half of the colour patch and the Battalion colour on the top half. The four battalions with white top halves to their colour patch in the 1st Division were the 4th Battalion (white over green), the 8th Battalion (white over red), the 12th Battalion (white over light blue) and the 16th Battalion (white over dark blue). I do not think it is the 8th of 16th Battalion as their lower halves would be too dark to be the one in the photo. I agree with Robert and would guess he is either 4th Battalion or 12th Battalion. I am leaning towards the 12th Battalion as I think the colour is a little lighter than the green. This may well make this lad a Tasmanian. The 'A' badge on the colour patch was adopted for Gallipoli veterans. I have blown up the colour patch and don't think there is one there. Both these battalions served at Gallipoli. Rgds Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 26 September , 2004 Share Posted 26 September , 2004 Knowing the Aussies surname would help! It depends how desperate you are to identify him. If you have lotsa time you could browse awm.gov.au homepage under search our collections, type in 12th Battalion. That will bring up a long list of items. You can trim this somewhat by clicking on "images" in the left hand panel,& end up with photos. Although its a long shot, you may even recognise your man, but at least you will get pics of others in their colour patches. Another lead is to do an advanced search with Darge in maker field. That portrait company got in quick & secured the "concession" for taking photos at recruit camps in Victoria. There are too many items to list & restricting the search to 'private' still throws up over 3000 entries, nice little earner eh. By clicking on images, this reduces it to about 200. The remainder are held on glass images which are currently awaiting restoration. Which is another indication of what a good job Hurley did 'at the front' as compared with a formal 'in camp' studio.... [Hobby horses again Paddy?] Good luck Pat From the pic above I would have risked a few quid on the A being there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 26 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 26 September , 2004 From the pic above I would have risked a few quid on the A being there. Pat/Tim I did that. Online I could have sworn that there was a brass "A" present. I have now looked at the card with a jewellers loup (sp?) - the magnifying thingy you put in your eye. There is definately no "A". The photographers flash has rebounded off of the patch itself - the sleeve is creased, and with it the patch. These could be two wounded soldiers? Although if so, shouldn't they then be wearing hospital blues?? Under the glass the seated English soldier is holding one hand with the other, as if he is in pain. This could just be my imagination. However, he certainly has a lot of white cloth, that must be a bandage or similar, poking out the bottom of his sleeve. He has a wound stripe on the other sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 26 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 26 September , 2004 Knowing the Aussies surname would help! It depends how desperate you are to identify him. If you have lotsa time you could browse awm.gov.au homepage under search our collections, type in 12th Battalion. That will bring up a long list of items. You can trim this somewhat by clicking on "images" in the left hand panel,& end up with photos. Although its a long shot, you may even recognise your man, but at least you will get pics of others in their colour patches. Another lead is to do an advanced search with Darge in maker field. That portrait company got in quick & secured the "concession" for taking photos at recruit camps in Victoria. There are too many items to list & restricting the search to 'private' still throws up over 3000 entries, nice little earner eh. By clicking on images, this reduces it to about 200. The remainder are held on glass images which are currently awaiting restoration. Which is another indication of what a good job Hurley did 'at the front' as compared with a formal 'in camp' studio.... [Hobby horses again Paddy?] Good luck Pat From the pic above I would have risked a few quid on the A being there. Pat If only I had the time! Actually I plan to do something like this with most of my post cards once I do have the time ie when I am retired. I have rather a lot of them to research. A couple of weeks ago I picked up a card of an Australian Light Horseman, no names at all, not even a colour patch up. However, it was taken in Australia so, one day, I will plow through photos of the Light Horse Regiments from the state in question. Maybe things will be a lot easier by then? Look at the way research has become a lot easier since the net! One thing that I have great hopes of is the individual photographers records have survived, and that someone will put them online? The photo we started discussing was taken by H Tewson at the Rembrandt Studios, 23a Queens Arcade, Leeds. It is photo no. 2771. Other than the photo itself there is nothing else to identify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 26 September , 2004 Share Posted 26 September , 2004 Yeah, One day I'm gunna................ Heard it all before, mate Post the Lighthorseman's pic, and let's have a go at it!. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 28 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2004 Yeah, One day I'm gunna................ Heard it all before, mate Post the Lighthorseman's pic, and let's have a go at it!. Pat Pat Here it is. I think he is from Queensland, as there is a faint photographers stamp on the reverse, which includes 'Brisbane'. If it helps, his first name is Bert - handwritten "Yours Bert" on the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 28 September , 2004 Share Posted 28 September , 2004 I agree your man is most likely from Queensland. Don't be taken in by the scenery though. Many studios, in Australia and Egypt, patronised by the ALH had pretty impressive backdrop curtains. You can get a pretty active argument by sticking your neck out & making an assertion, but the voluminous 'kangaroo feathers' , the absence of colour patch & the "Brisbane'' stamp would narrow your man down to the 5th ALH "pre-embarkation'' ie pre Dec 1914 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 28 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2004 You can get a pretty active argument by sticking your neck out & making an assertion, but the voluminous 'kangaroo feathers' , the absence of colour patch & the "Brisbane'' stamp would narrow your man down to the 5th ALH "pre-embarkation'' ie pre Dec 1914 Thanks Pat. Pretty much my own conclusions. Wonder what % of the 5th Light Horse were called Bert? I will have another look at that stamp, I think there is a "Valley" and a "Palm" in it? Maybe the photographer was called Palm or Palmer and, if I were to be really lucky 5th Light Horse were at a camp with "Valley" in the title? Anyway, another one for when I am retired. Interesting stuff though, and these guys deserve to be remembered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 28 September , 2004 Share Posted 28 September , 2004 Fortitude Valley is my bet. As to the Bert, you don't you don't even get a clue from the initials. Albert Herbert Englebert Egbert, etc etc. There is also the trick of using your middle name, and if you don't like that, Well take your pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 29 September , 2004 Share Posted 29 September , 2004 Have at look at this mate. 5th ALH Museum is in Gympie. Perhaps they can assist? http://www.lighthorse.org.au/ Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 30 September , 2004 Share Posted 30 September , 2004 Bryn Dolan's Anzac Officers website also has a 5th Light Horse database attached to it which might be of use. http://www.anzacs.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 30 September , 2004 Share Posted 30 September , 2004 Er Um Don't quite know how to say this, but your man had as much chance of belonging to the 2nd ALH as to the 5th. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 30 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2004 Er Um Don't quite know how to say this, but your man had as much chance of belonging to the 2nd ALH as to the 5th. Pat Pat Lifes a bitch and then you die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 30 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2004 Have at look at this mate. 5th ALH Museum is in Gympie. Perhaps they can assist? http://www.lighthorse.org.au/ Tim D Thanks Tim, will follow it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 30 September , 2004 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2004 Bryn Dolan's Anzac Officers website also has a 5th Light Horse database attached to it which might be of use. http://www.anzacs.org Thanks Andrew, well worth knowing about even if it does not help in this case. Am off to have a look. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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