Copyright advice please

[asanewt]

I have tried to follow the experience of a few men during WW1 and jotted down a synopsis of sorts for use by my own family and those of other casualties.

One of the books " A HISTORY OF THE 38TH (WELSH) DIVISION " has no copyright notice that I can find.

So is it an issue anyway and does the apparent absence of the notice have effect?

Thanks for looking.

[John_Hartley]

I've not checked when it was published but guess that it is now out of copyright. Even if it was within the copyright period, use of small portions of a book are generally OK as "fair dealing" under the 1988 legislation.

[David_Underdown]

Lack of notice has no bearing (it used to, particularly for US purposes). The issue is basically did the author die 70+ years ago or not? (copyright in any photos etc used in the book could have different copyright).

However, the facts themselves cannot be copyrighted, merely the expression of them, so unless it's a "close paraphrase", and from your description I'm guessing your version is somewhat condensed from the original, it's unlikely you are infringing 9but I am not a lawyer, and you shouldn't take this as legal advice etc etc).

[Guest]

I have tried to follow the experience of a few men during WW1 and jotted down a synopsis of sorts for use by my own family and those of other casualties.

One of the books " A HISTORY OF THE 38TH (WELSH) DIVISION " has no copyright notice that I can find.

So is it an issue anyway and does the apparent absence of the notice have effect?

Thanks for looking.

It depends on what you are doing....If it is not going in the public domain and it is non-commercial and you use only a reasonable proportion (UK legal advice varies on this last point from 5-10% generally) then you are OK. If it is for criticism or review (as often happens on the GWF) you can quote from material but it must involve some discussion..... and you must acknowledge the sources - this is the concept of 'fair dealing' or 'fair use' and is used by journalists, book reviewers etc.

The author was Lt Col J E Munby who might be the Joseph E Munby who died in Yorkshire in 1962. He is the only person with the right initials who was born before the book was published. Added to which the book is in reprint which is usually a giveaway that the copyright has expired. Note the 70 year rule is from the date of first publication or from the date of the death of the author - whichever is later. It is usually the latter, but occasionally material is published after an author has died.

MG

[asanewt]

Many thanks for very informative comments as usual.

[toto123]

AS John says, you can use a certain amount without infringing copyright. Also Kew RO told me that if your book run doesn't exceed 200 you can copy and use original documents.This I am sure is because no one is profiting from a small run book.

[Tom Morgan]

Added to which the book is in reprint which is usually a giveaway that the copyright has expired.

MG

Sorry to disagree, but I don't think this can be relied upon. I'm thinking of War is War by "Ex-Private X" (A. M. Burrage). This was originally published in 1930 and was republished in a new edition by Pen & Sword in 2010. A. M. Burrage died in 1956, so the work will be in copyright until 31st December 2026. The new edition was possible not because the copyright had expired, but because the copyright-holder gave permission. I believe that A. M. Burrage's son is the copyright-holder. In 2004 he was in dispute with a publisher who had published an unauthorised edition.

Another that comes to mind is The Middle Parts of Fortune by Frederic Manning, originally published in 1929 and republished many times since with new editions in 1977, 1979, 1990 and others. Manning died in 1935 so copyright existed until 31st December, 2005 and again, I am sure that permission had to be obtained for these editions. Copyright was held by a lady in New South Wales.

Tom

[Guest]

Sorry to disagree, but I don't think this can be relied upon. I'm thinking of War is War by "Ex-Private X" (A. M. Burrage). This was originally published in 1930 and was republished in a new edition by Pen & Sword in 2010. A. M. Burrage died in 1956, so the work will be in copyright until 31st December 2026. The new edition was possible not because the copyright had expired, but because the copyright-holder gave permission. I believe that A. M. Burrage's son is the copyright-holder. In 2004 he was in dispute with a publisher who had published an unauthorised edition.

Another that comes to mind is The Middle Parts of Fortune by Frederic Manning, originally published in 1929 and republished many times since with new editions in 1977, 1979, 1990 and others. Manning died in 1935 so copyright existed until 31st December, 2005 and again, I am sure that permission had to be obtained for these editions. Copyright was held by a lady in New South Wales.

Tom

Tom,...this is why I said 'usually'...which does not mean 'always' but does imply 'mostly'. The tacit implication is that one needs to check. Maybe I should have spelled that out more clearly. I assumed (wrongly) that everyone knows what 'usually' means. My apologies for not being clear.

If you look at the vast number of reprints of Great War era books - mostly by the likes of Pen and Sword or the Naval and Military press, - typically Regimental histories and Divisional histories - they are mainly being reprinted because the authors died over 70 years ago. It is fairly easy to research a British author and his date of death and I suspect these publishers have done their legwork. I have done some research on this as there are websites that offer access to scanned original copies of regimental histories - one of them offers access (for a fee) of over 500. I transcribe diaries and the original publications to read in parallel so I have explored the list of authors of regimental histories. Not all died more than 70 years ago. I also collect original published unit histories and 'usually' research the re-print alternatives when buying as the originals can cost many times more than the modern re-prints.

The exceptions are HMSO publications as copyright on Govt material is subject to Crown Copyright. Having said that I have seen Crown Copyright material on North American websites.

MG

[Tom Morgan]

sorry, Martin, if I misunderstood you. There is no need to apologise. I know what "usually" means. but I still think that your suggestion is unreliable. However I'm not here to argue so i'll withdraw from this thread, and I apologise to Jules if my attempt to offer a helpful comment has diverted the discussion away from his original request for help.

Tom

Edit: to remove a phrase which I thought might be taken as confrontational, which was not my intention.