BDS Posted 20 February , 2014 Share Posted 20 February , 2014 Some serious ranting going on here, if the objection to the new steps is their impact on the visual aspect as has been suggested, why don't some of the ranters get over there with some green paint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Powell Posted 20 February , 2014 Share Posted 20 February , 2014 Lets get a few 'answers' down for those who are not aware of them. The land the Dragon is sited on differs from the land the Butte de Warlencourt as the latter is wholly owned by The Western Front Association, whereas the former is not. The dragon sits on its plinth on a piece of ground which was given gratis to the Branch for that purpose. This amounts to about 6 square feet but the surrounding site (tump) is not ours but belongs to a local landowner. The task of establishing the memorial in 1987 took a lot of effort by 'volunteers' who devotedly donated their expense, time and expertise in getting it from A to Z and are continuing to do so in order to cut back trees, etc., and we do have a maintenance program with the CWGC who undertake to maintain the site and memorial on our behalf and for which we have to pay a substantial fee. Fundraising has to be constantly maintained in order to pay for this and for refurbishing and we are only a local branch unlike other larger outfits only have limited resources. The road project is being undertaken by the local Municipality of Mametz and is independent of the SWWFA. The non-metalled bit in the middle was in between the two Municipalities of Mametz in the south and Contalmaison/ Bazentins in the North. Despite comments made, the 'improvements' to the road would rectify this and would presumably be a benefit in attracting more visitors to Mametz Village from Contalmaison and Bazentin Villages end and vice-versa, and it would obviously create more traffic along this route, and at the same time to the Memorial site, hence the addition of a turning circle, also easing the parking at the Memorial. Even the seat is not the SWWFA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 20 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2014 ... The dragon sits on its plinth on a piece of ground which was given gratis to the Branch for that purpose. This amounts to about 6 square feet but the surrounding site (tump) is not ours but belongs to a local landowner. ... we do have a maintenance program with the CWGC who undertake to maintain the site and memorial on our behalf and for which we have to pay a substantial fee. ... The road project is being undertaken by the local Municipality of Mametz and is independent of the SWWFA. The non-metalled bit in the middle was in between the two Municipalities of Mametz in the south and Contalmaison/ Bazentins in the North. Despite comments made, the 'improvements' to the road would rectify this and would presumably be a benefit in attracting more visitors to Mametz Village from Contalmaison and Bazentin Villages end and vice-versa, ... It would seem then that any "H&S liability", should it exist, rests with the local landowner and possibly the CWGC, who, effectively, must be a sub-contractor to the landowner (unless there is some legal arrangement which makes them a sub-sub-contractor "via" the SWWFA ?). That seems to answer Q2 in post #66. Is the answer to Q1 in Post #66 therefore that the "H&S liability" and therefore the decision to install these stairs was determined by the CWGC and not the landowner or the SWWFA ? ("Q1 is about why. Has this action been taken based on a layman's view of the risk, or has a professional risk assessment been carried out, and if so by who?"). If that is the case then I suppose that any comments ref the installation should really be addressed to the CWGC. Is that correct ? Metalling the track from Mametz past the memorial and Flatiron Copse to the lower end of Bazantin-le-Petit is a matter for the locals. It will no doubt quickly become a cut-through, though the idea that it will "presumably be a benefit in attracting more visitors to Mametz Village from Contalmaison and Bazentin Villages end and vice-versa, ..." is intriguing. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 21 February , 2014 Share Posted 21 February , 2014 Given the "answers" given and statements made by some respondents, I have as much right as anybody to ask questions and expect (reasonable) answers. What is striking is the refusal to adequately address the issues raised and the tacit insistence that what is clearly not a good development actually is ! "Don't go there" isn't an answer. Tom I don't like Chinese food, I don't go to Chinese Restaurants, problem solved, I don't have to put up with something I dislike. Well here is an idea pop to B&Q get some shrubs, daffodils and a few grow bags, pop over and give them a hand, as the next phase is landscaping/ planting and that will cost a fair amount. Now is your chance to give them a hand to help it turn from a building site to a memorial site, if you aren't willing to help stop moaning because you aren't really achieving anything apart from annoying a lot of people who have put a lot of hard work and time into something you haven't... its easy to criticise harder to help. I spoke with Phil this afternoon at a meeting I'm quite happy with it and will gladly donate to the next stage of the development. Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 22 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 22 February , 2014 ... Well here is an idea pop to B&Q get some shrubs, daffodils and a few grow bags, pop over and give them a hand, as the next phase is landscaping/ planting and that will cost a fair amount. Now is your chance to give them a hand to help it turn from a building site to a memorial site, if you aren't willing to help stop moaning because you aren't really achieving anything apart from annoying a lot of people who have put a lot of hard work and time into something you haven't... its easy to criticise harder to help. I spoke with Phil this afternoon at a meeting I'm quite happy with it and will gladly donate to the next stage of the development. There seems to be a tremendous enthusiasm amongst "the Welsh" contributors for me to expend labour and monies sorting out their cock-ups. This isn't going to happen. It still isn't clear just who is responsible for imposing this awful eyesore on the 38th Division Memorial - the SWWFA, the CWGC, the landowner, the commune, or some combination of the foregoing - but no matter how you try to cut the cake it is just that - an awful eyesore. If the response to post #1 had been, yes, its all gone horribly wrong but we're going to sort it out, then things would have gone very differently, But no, there has just been a stream of verbal diarrhea and silly excuses. You seem to be set in your conviction that you have created a thing of beauty, so I'll leave you to it. You will not be telling me though where I will or will not be going on the Western Front. It was good enough for my grandfather and his comrades buried in Flatiron Copse, so its good enough for me. I have no idea who "Phil" is. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghazala Posted 27 February , 2014 Share Posted 27 February , 2014 The Welsh Dragon Memorial to the 38th Welsh Division being put back into place at Mametz Wood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghazala Posted 27 February , 2014 Share Posted 27 February , 2014 Another view... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 27 February , 2014 Share Posted 27 February , 2014 Welcome back to where it belongs, thanks for posting the photos. Norman PS Great little machine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 27 February , 2014 Share Posted 27 February , 2014 Those yellow over-suits are a bit obtrusive. Health 'n Safety gone mad, if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted 27 February , 2014 Share Posted 27 February , 2014 The stones are in place but not yet the dragon at the new memorial being created at Iron Cross Roads in langemark. The dedication is on track for August 16th. Since the land is flat, there is no need for steps, ugly ones or otherwise. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghazala Posted 27 February , 2014 Share Posted 27 February , 2014 Those yellow over-suits are a bit obtrusive. Health 'n Safety gone mad, if you ask me. Lol... I like your humour Steven... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 27 February , 2014 Share Posted 27 February , 2014 One tries to lighten the load as we pass through this vale of tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghazala Posted 27 February , 2014 Share Posted 27 February , 2014 He looks wonderful in his restored condition... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 27 February , 2014 Share Posted 27 February , 2014 An excellent photo, the memorial looks superb thanks for posting Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick D Posted 28 February , 2014 Share Posted 28 February , 2014 That is a good photo, nice one, Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipdavies48 Posted 5 March , 2014 Share Posted 5 March , 2014 For the benefit of Tom Tulloch. In the words of Spartacus! " I am Phil." I have the honour to be the Secefetary of the South Wales Branch of the WFA. I have had the honour to be part of this memorial since its inception in July 1987. I continue to work towards its upkeep and to ensure that it remains a site that is well visited by many people each year. I am pleased to note that far more people welcome the refurbishment and show their appreciation for it than those that detract. I am sorry if we adhere to H&S issues. The former stairs were dangerous and had become an eyesore. The SWWFA had put these steps in place and we were morally obliged to sort them out. If some-one had received an accident by falling on these steps you know what would have been the outcome. We approached the CWGC, who do indeed maintain the site on our behalf, (though we do pay for their service) and asked them to remove the steps completely. Their view was that the steps were important as they led to the memorial from the car park. Not to have steps would have meant that people would have clambered up the bank rather than walking around to the gentle access slope. There is room in this world for both. The CWGC worked with the SWWFA to design and create the new staircase. They are now in place and perhaps it is time to move on and look to the future. I am sure that when we have completed the Landscaping and Planting it will look magnificent. I hope Tom Tulloch comes to the commemoration in July 2016 and I can speak to him in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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