5/6th Scottish Rifles at High Wood

[mascott]

My Grandfather Pt James Slavin 17182 was wounded in a shrapnel bombardment on the 16/17th July 1916 near to Bazentin Le Petit while moving forward to attack High Wood.

Is possible to get a copy of the diary extracts for these dates.

I have read 2 separate accounts, one saying that the companies were stretched out in a line from Crucifix Corner to the quarry. Book by HH Storey History of the Cameronians

The other saying that they had moved to a 'sunken road' at right angles to the front line and were dug into small caves cut into the side of the mounts when the bombardment worked it way down

the line injuring a large number of men in the legs. Book by Cameron Stewart " A Very Unimportant Officer' from the diaries of his Grandfather Captain Alexander Stewart

Would also like to learn about a Private Thomas Slavin from Blantyre who as a member of the 6th Battalion was killed on the 15th June 1915, possibly during the attack they made at Festubert.

We are going to visit the Somme in April of this year and will make the visit to High Wood and the cemeteries in and around that area the main focal point.

[WilliamRev]

The battalion history: "The Fifth Scottish Rifles 1914-1919" (published 1936, edited by Major David Martin) says this of the 16th July 1916:

"....At 10.30 p.m. the battalion moved forward [from a position to the rear of Mametz Wood where they had been sheltering in "cubby-holes"] and held the line of the road from Bazentin-le-Petit to High Wood. "A", "B" and "D" Companies were in this line with "C" Company in support at the Blasted Tree. In moving to this position the companies were caught by a heavy shrapnel bombardment and suffered many casualties. In the position taken up enfilading shrapnel fire again played havoc, particularly with "D" Company. At about 8 a.m. on the 17th the position was modified to a line running from the cemetery to the windmill, both east of Bezantin-le-Petit, "C" Company being moved up to the left of the line. We were relieved on the night of the 18th by the 20th Royal Fusiliers, and moved back to Mametz Wood. Our casualties on the 16th were five officers....and sixty-five men...On the 17th two officers and thirty men were wounded.....".

The book has a reproduction of "The Commanding Officers Map", which hopefully appears below. I hope that something of this is of use to you!

William

[Rob Bulloch]

Post Edited. Wrong battalion "loosening it"

Aye Rob

[BottsGreys]

Hello mascott:

Attached is someone else you might wish to keep in your thoughts during your Somme visit.

No. 200841 Pte. Michael Montague, 5th Cameronians (Scottish Rifles). Per Soldiers Died in the Great War: Birthplace: St. Rollox, Lanark; Enlisted: Glasgow; KIA during the battalion's attack on High Wood, 20 July 1916. Per CWGC: Pier and Face 4 D, Thiepval Memorial.

Real-photo postcard by Mr. B's Studios, Head offices, 55 Argyle St., Glasgow.

Chris

[mascott]

Thank you for your replies and all the information. We intend to visit the Cemeteries at Flat Iron Copse, Bazentin Le Petit (2), Thistle Dump, Caterpillar Valley, Delville Wood and of course High Wood.

We will also be visiting the site of the attack made by the 6th SR on the 15th June 1915 at Festubert and have found a reference and map of its location in the 51st Highland Division book. From that account it seems that 705 men went into the attack but found they could not get through the wire and that 348 did not answer the roll call the following day.

If anyone wants a photograph of any soldiers headstone in any of these locations we will be only to happy to forward them onto you on our return in early May.

I have written to the Museum in Hamilton and we are still trying to gather as much information as possible about the activities of the 6th Battalion SR from the time they arrived in France until the time he was wounded and the 5/6th were withdrawn from the line after the main attack on the 20th July.

Many thanks

Michael Scott

[WilliamRev]

Hi Michael,

I very nearly put in my post that maps and written accounts of the 5/6th Scottish Rifles action will only really make sense if you visit the battlefield, so glad to hear that you intend going: if you stand at the north end of Caterpillar Valley Cemetery (which belies it's name by being on the top of Bezantin Ridge!) you can look across to High Wood and really comprehend why it was so important that the British take it/the Germans hang on to it. My brother and I found that Paul Reed's book "Walking the Somme" was particularly useful when we visited 2 years ago.

Flat Iron Copse Cemetery is my favourite Western Front Cemetery: there are gravestones of five officers of 1st Royal Scots Fusiliers, all in a row. They were all colleagues of my grandfather - seen in my avatar - who was badly wounded on 18th July 1916, about where Caterpillar Valley Cemetery now is, less than half a mile from where your grandfather was wounded the previous day.

William

[mascott]

I found the name of a Pt Thomas Slavin of the 6th Bn Scottish Rifles on The Evening Times Roll Of Honour 1914-1915. He was KIA on the 15/06/1915, probably at the Battle of Festubert and I have been trying to trace his grave, or the place that he would have been commemorated so that we could pay our respects when we make our visit, as he would have been known to my Grandfather and may even have been a relative. I could not find any trace of him in the CWGC and after wasting some time I eventually tried to find him again but this time changed the spelling of the surname to Slaven and have found him listed at Le Touret Memorial. I can only assume that the Evening Times got it wrong?

William,

It would appear that our Grandfathers may have met in 1914 as we have uncovered a note that shows my Grandfather as having signed up for the Royal Scots Fusiliers in January of 1914 and leaving 'by purchase' about 6 weeks later. No one in the family knew anything about this and we are going to check the date of his marriage or the date of the first born to see if we can shed any light on this? Will let you know if we find anything.

Michael

[mascott]

This message is for Botts Greys who sent me a photo of Pt Michael Montague of the 5th Cameronians and who was KIA on the 20th July during the attack on High Wood.

I was checking through the IWM website and looking at their photo's taken in July around the High Wood and Bazentin area when I came across a photo of a number (about 12) men lying down and sleeping. This photo is identified as (Q 172) and on the right hand side you can see one soldier who is wearing a hat with what looks like a Cameronian (Scottish Rifles) badge on it. On closer inspection this man is, I believe, your Michael Montague and this was taken between the 14 - 17th July just before he died.

Please have a look at it on the IWM website and tell me what you think?

Michael Scott

[WilliamRev]

For anyone who is following this thread and interested, the photo on the IWM website which Michael mentioned is: here. The badge on the tam-o-shanters looks very like Scottish Rifles, although the snoozing men are not near the front line or they would be wearing helmets - there is not a helmet in site that I can see, and there are transport vehicles etc. in the background. So probably not particularly near the front line at High Wood or Bazentin Ridge itself when the photo was taken.

Michael - just seen your note about grandfathers possibly meeting - in fact my grandfather went the other way: he was a private in the 5th Scotttish Rifles from November 1914 until December 1915, and then a 2nd Lieut in the 1st Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers thereafter, wounded Bazentin Ridge 18th July 1916. But they may have met, being Glaswegians and the same age. [There was a thread recently about leaving the army "by purchase", but I can't find it at the moment].

William

[BottsGreys]

Michael:

Thanks for pointing us to the IWM pic. The fellow you pointed out does indeed have a pretty strong likeness to Montague.

Chris

[mascott]

William,

There is a possibility that this picture was taken at a place called Becordel-Becourt, a small village situated between Albert and Fricourt and just behind the start line for the attack on the first day of the battle of the Somme.

I have read that they gathered there before marching of at 2-30 am on the the 15th July towards Mametz Wood. I believe that 1,065 men started off on that march with a certain percentage being held in reserve to form a new battalion, others to supply duties such as stretcher bearers, transport of essential supplies, water and food and ammunition?

I have come across an account that when they gathered together, after the main attack on High Wood on the 20th July, there was only 197 men who answered the roll call. If anyone can add or correct any information then I would be grateful. I have read a lot of books or accounts about this engagement but I suppose it is easy to confuse or make mistakes when trying to recall all of the facts in the right order.

Michael

[mascott]

William,

There are two more photographs that seem to be the same group of soldiers resting in a field with some of the signs that they were taken at the same time with the camera panning 45 degrees to the right for photo Q 172.

They are all lying down, wearing Tam O Shanters, with the rifles stacked, no helmets and on a similar rough ground and a carriage that can be seen in the background in one of them also appears in the other.

They are numbered (Q 171) with a number 1 in the top right hand corner, (Q 172) with a number 2, and (Q 173) with a number 3. This has to be a set of 3, or possibly more? The date given is the 19th July on 2 of them, but that could be admin error. I cannot see any badges on the hats but there is just too many similarities, or I could be desperately clutching at straws in my attempts to find my Grandfather and his mates.

Have tried to find out if there are any more but I am just pulling up references to any item with a 170 or a 175 in the article.

Let me know what you think?

Michael

[mascott]

Have had to put my plans for a visit to France on hold while I must attend my local Hospital to try to find out why the lymph node on the right side of my neck has swollen and the Consultant tells me that it is cancer.

Going on Thursday 3rd April to have some biopsies done and then to wait for the results before they know how best to treat this.

Hopefully this is just a delay and that we will be on the Somme and Flanders later on in the year.

The good news is that I have at long last sorted out my golf game and that I would now be close to single figures.

Regards and best wishes to all,

Michael Scott

[barrieduncan]

Michael, I'll send you a formal 'thank you' from work, but just wanted to say thank you very much for your letter , and also for this thread; I hadn't ever seen those particular images from the IWM and they are fascinating! I hope you get good news at the doctors soon and it won't be too long before you get over to France and Belgium - High Wood is a special place and it will be worth the wait.

All the best

Barrie

[Wardog]

I do hope you are better later in the year and can make your trip. I will be most interested to hear how you get on and see any photos. My Grandfather's cousin was attached to 1st Cameronians and died on the 20th July 1916 at High Wood. He was 2nd Lt.R M Laing MC. He has no known grave so probably in the wood still. Regards, Paul.

[BottsGreys]

Michael:

So sorry to hear of your illness. I'll keep a good thought for you.

Chris

[mascott]

Wardog,

Paul,

You may be interested in reading the book by Cameron Stewart who found and published the diaries of his Grandfather Captain Alexander Stewart " A Very Unimportant Officer" that covers his time serving with the Scottish Rifles and who survived all of the fighting. On page 107 the entry states:

July 21st Leave High Wood at 2-0am. Arrive Mametz Wood 3-30am. Sleep. Leave Mametz Wood 5-30pm. Arrive Buire 10pm. Ritchie, Laing, McKillop killed in 'C' Company. there is another reference on the next page that says ( all the other Officers of 'C' Company killed)

There are some photo's of a group of Officers shown earlier in the book but it does not give a list of their names. I found it to be a good read and allowed me to understand the daily routines and events that the soldiers faced.

I had to understand that some of it was a diary entry and was short and to the point.

Hope this is of interest to you.

Regards,

mascott

[Wardog]

Hello Michael. This is a picture of Robert Macleod Laing.

I have not read the book you mention, I see it may be quite a recent book.

I have only been to the Somme once and at that time knew nothing of my distant relative. I do hope your feel fit enough to visit the wood later in the year- one can only imagine what it is like inside it now- or for that matter what it was like nearly 100 years ago. Hell on earth I should think. Best Wishes, Paul.

[Chris Noble]

Good evening Michael.

Somewhere I do have some War Diary extracts as regards the 6th Battalion during this period.

If you get the chance, and I hope you find yourself in the pink as they say, please feel free to drop me a line.

Best wishes to you.

Chris.

[mascott]

Chris Noble,

I am still trying to gather all the information that I can find about my Grandfather and his experiences in the 6th and later the 5/6th SR from the time he arrived in France in March of 1915.

I do not think that I can send e-mails on this site, as yet, and will not be able to do so until I reach a certain number of posts?

I have only recently received a reply from Barrie Duncan at the Museum in Hamilton in answer to our request for information and I am actively compiling all of this together.

I used the Inter-Library loan system to get hold of some books, such as " The History of The Cameronians " by HH Storey and and " The 5th Battalion the Cameronians (SR) 1914-1918 by Major David Martin 1936.

Both these books are a very good source of information and if anyone is trying to trace the history of a relative then they are worth the trouble of ordering and waiting until they are made available.

Am I allowed to post my e-mail address on this page so that you can contact me?

Paul,

Both of the books that I have mentioned above will be of interest to you as they give a very good account of the struggle that they faced in each stage of the battle. Casualty lists are given and the Officers are mentioned by name.

Cameron Stewart put together an One Man Stage Show that tells of his grandfather's experience during WW1. It ran at the Edinburgh Festival and in London for about 2 years. You will find a few extracts of it on YouTube,

under My Grandfather's Great War or " A Very Unimportant Officer". He also has his own website that will give out more information.

mascott

[Chris Noble]

I have sent you a PM Michael as regards my e-mail.

It's a very long time since I had a look at this action near High Wood and the subsequent capture of Martinpuich.

Somebody will correct me no doubt, but if I remember correctly, there is a 'suggestion' that during the advance of the 15th (Scottish) Division on the 15th September, one British gun may have fallen 'short,' firing to the rear of the advancing men causing numerous casualties.

Best wishes.

Chris.

[mascott]

Members of the Forum,

I have just this day received word from the Consultant at my local Hospital that the results of the biopsies and body scans have not found any other location that is infected by cancer and that I am clear to have this lump removed from my throat by surgery at sometime in the near future.

Probably in about 4-6 weeks and then they will see if any other action is required. The main thing is that there is no secondary cancer affecting me. The trip to France and the accommodation, that was due to start this weekend was cancelled. We are about to start contacting some places to see if we can make the visit within the next few days.

I am very happy and relieved and will try to get all the photo's that we promised.

Regards and best wishes to all,

Michael Scott

[BottsGreys]

Michael:

That's good news. Here's to hoping that this is a one-time thing and that once you have your surgery, you can put it behind you.

Chris

[mascott]

Members,

We have booked into the Ibis Hotel near to La Boisselle and Albert on Sunday 27th April for 2 nights in order to visit the battlefields at High Wood, Delville Wood and Bazentin-Le-Petit. We will then move onto the area near to Bethune and also Ypres.

We will hopefully have some interesting photo's to post when we return.

Regards and best wishes to all,

mascott

[Ed ROBINSON]

Hello Chums found this thread when I was researching a soldier who was taken POW when he was wounded with the 5th SR in High Woods. Most informative thread. Thank you!

Cheers Ed Robinson