kenneth505 Posted 25 March , 2014 Share Posted 25 March , 2014 Finished reading Three Armies on the Somme: The First Battle of the Twentieth Century Paperback by William Philpott. In the UK was published under a different title earlier. It's a great read and I loved it. Interestingly if one did not know one could be forgiven for thinking it was nearly a purely French battle if all they knew about the topic was derived from this book. Philpott seems to think that Foch is the true genius of allied generalship. Since I just finished the book I'm inclined to agree until the inoculation starts to wear off. If Foch isn't the who is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 25 March , 2014 Share Posted 25 March , 2014 It was a very good book indeed (if it's the same one as Bloody Victory?). Not light reading, but worthwhile: it gave the French contribution to the campaign something of the status it has lacked in English-language accounts. Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth505 Posted 26 March , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 March , 2014 Yes that's it, Bloody Victory was the title for Britain. Think it's a bit in league with Peter Hart's Gallipoli in the sense of providing a lot of the French input. Untold, or at least not often told parts. One thing that's true for me about the study of TGW is at times it's possible to forget about all the 'other' contributions. Russia and the east especially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyne Posted 26 March , 2014 Share Posted 26 March , 2014 It's on my list... thanks for warning about the "not light reading".... I might wait until after the course, then!! M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth505 Posted 26 March , 2014 Author Share Posted 26 March , 2014 IMHO think it's one of the more important books of the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 29 March , 2014 Share Posted 29 March , 2014 Certainly a useful correction to the normal view of the Somme as an almost exclusively British battle. Would appear to be the standard work for the foreseeable future - although I suspect that will be put to the test by an avalanche of books in 2016! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 30 March , 2014 Share Posted 30 March , 2014 Much better overall picture of the Somme. Middlebrook "1st day of the Somme" for the British view and a more basic view, excellent reading. Then read Philpott, very indepth and goes into areas others miss. A fantastic book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony osborne Posted 30 March , 2014 Share Posted 30 March , 2014 Will add to my list. Ant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 30 March , 2014 Share Posted 30 March , 2014 It's a good book but I found the maps less helpful than those in other works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth505 Posted 31 March , 2014 Author Share Posted 31 March , 2014 I know what you mean. The maps were presented in a rather compact way. Made me use a magnifying glass and recognize that I'm gonna need readers soon then later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 31 March , 2014 Share Posted 31 March , 2014 I know what you mean. The maps were presented in a rather compact way. Made me use a magnifying glass and recognize that I'm gonna need readers soon then later. The maps in Harriss's book on Haig are superb - clear, uncluttered and easy to understand. Those in Stevenson's With Our Backs to the Wall I find 'orrible especially where they show positions at different dates using dotted lines that are indistinguishable from one another (and from railway lines!). When a book's subject is the progressions of a battle or campaign, clear maps are essential no matter how lucid the text. If it's Gunner Everyman's experiences on the Euphrates then they are less important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth505 Posted 1 April , 2014 Author Share Posted 1 April , 2014 Good maps contribute mightily for me. One defense I would make of Philpott's is that by putting many years worth of movement onto one display they demonstrate how little the lines changed over time. I suspect ultimately publishers make the decisions on maps, they drive the cost of printing up in our relatively niche market. I should hope more authors and publishers would realize they could use the internet to support printed publications and make some webpages with more detailed maps, appendixes, bibliographies et al available. They could even stop printing the 100-200 pages of stuff at the end of the book that must be expensive and not utilized near enough to justify the investment. Interactive indexes. Active links to other titles with an option to purchase. Kindles and other electronic readers would benefit as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamRev Posted 5 October , 2014 Share Posted 5 October , 2014 Having read about this book on the forum, I am very impressed by how well-received it has been, so Ihave just ordered it (using the forum Amazon money-raising link of course). On the whole though, I try to avoid buying any WW1 book with the words "blood", "bloody", "slaughter", "mud", "massacre", "hell", "death", "sacrificial" or "Lloyd George" in the title. William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 6 October , 2014 Share Posted 6 October , 2014 My next book "Bloody Lloyd George's sacrificial massacre in the mud of Hell" won't be in your Christmas list, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 6 October , 2014 Share Posted 6 October , 2014 Can I suggest a slight edit in the title Chris, I think Lloyd George's sacrificial massacre in bloody muddy Hell trips of the toungue more easily; Should shift a few more copies doncha think? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 6 October , 2014 Share Posted 6 October , 2014 Can I suggest a slight edit in the title Chris, I think Lloyd George's sacrificial massacre in bloody muddy Hell trips of the toungue more easily; Should shift a few more copies doncha think? Mike Where you a Sun sub editor once? Bloody is apparently (allegedly) the most used English cuss word of both world wars as this little ditty might suggest https://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~tf/poem24.html (WW2 by a Scotish sailor at Scapa Flo but with some minor changes would probably have summed up British service mens' attitudes to the base in WW1 and also to many a French town in that period) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 6 October , 2014 Share Posted 6 October , 2014 Where you a Sun sub editor once? Praise indeed? Just looking through Undertones of War. " Bloody " appears 5 times, and " mud " or " muddy " 51 times. There's a free word/phrase frequency counter here at WriteWords can be useful, just copy and paste text. (There are probably many other ways to do this?) Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 6 October , 2014 Share Posted 6 October , 2014 It needs Red Baron in there somewhere too to be complete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamRev Posted 6 October , 2014 Share Posted 6 October , 2014 Can I suggest a slight edit in the title Chris, I think Lloyd George's sacrificial massacre in bloody muddy Hell trips of the toungue more easily; Should shift a few more copies doncha think? Or Lloyd George in Hell, to give it its' abbreviated title. Actually....I think I might quite like that book..... William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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