Remembering the 46th (North Midland) Division

[shinglma]

Remembering the 46th (North Midland) Division who attacked the Hohenzollern Redoubt on this day in 1915 losing 180 officers and 3,500 men.

Especially remembering the 20 officers and 473 men of the 4th Leicesters (138th Brigade) who were lost on that day.

and in memory of Arthur Kidger (4th Leicesters) who survived the war, and his brother Harry (8th Leicesters) who was killed on 7th June 1916, during the preparations for the 1st July diversionary attack on Gommecourt. also made by 46th Division.

We will remember them.

Mike Shingleton

[jim_davies]

Also remembering the 20 plus Stamford lads killed during this attack serving with the 1/4th Lincolns.

Jim

[rmtruby]

A couple of points:

1. Have you seen the images I've uploaded of Stamford's war memorials, including the stained glass window? Thought you'd be interested.

2. Does anyone have any information on Haig's comments about the 46th North Midland Division after 1st July 1916? I believe he sacked the Divisional Commander and he made some very disparaging remarks about him and his division.

Thanks

Ray

[jim_davies]

Hi Ray,

Where are the Stamford images? Searched the forum but couldn't find them. Would be very interested in taking a look.

Here's some comments made on MSW and the division:

King George V took a particular interest in its fate and asked Montagu-Stuart-Wortley to write to him weekly. Although Montagu-Stuart-Wortley received permission from Sir John French and Sir Horace Smith-Dorrien to do this, when the correspondence came to the notice of the GOC XI Corps, Richard Haking, and the GOC First Army, Sir Douglas Haig, during the King’s tour of the front in October 1915, they expressed their ‘severe displeasure’. Montagu-Stuart-Wortley was a marked man.

"On 2 July the GOC VII Corps, Sir Thomas Snow, wired GHQ that ‘I regret to have to report that the 46th Division in yesterday’s operations showed a lack of offensive spirit. I can only attribute this to the fact that its Commander, Major-General the Hon. E J Montagu-Stuart-Wortley, is not of an age, neither has he the constitution, to allow him to be as much among his men in the front lines as is necessary to imbue all ranks with confidence and spirit … I therefore recommend that a younger man, and one more physically capable of energy, should be appointed to command the Division.’ Haig not only agreed but also showed no mercy, making it quite clear to the War Office that he would not accept Montagu-Stuart-Wortley again as a divisional commander."

Lieutenant-Colonel A F Home, who was briefly GSO1 with 46th Division in the spring of 1916, was impressed neither with Montagu-Stuart-Wortley nor his command. ‘The whole of this Division wants ginger putting into it from top to bottom!’ he confided to his diary on 19 May 1916. Brigadier-General Lyons later described Montagu-Stuart-Wortley as ‘a worn-out man, who never visited his front line and was incapable of inspiring any enthusiasm’. This begs the question why he was not replaced before the attack. In truth, 46th Division was given an impossible task.

source-www.firstworldwar.bham.ac.uk/ donkey/wortley.htm

Cheers,

Jim

[Guest Simon Bull]

It is particularly apt to remember these men given the report in the latest WFA Bulletin that the Hohenzollern Redoubt is under threat of being used for landfill.

[armourersergeant]

I thought that it was Allenby who sent him home after Snow reported him as being unfit. That is mind after Snow had left him in temp command whilst he went on hols previous to the attacks and also after he had made his feelings that he was not fit but did not remove him from command.

It is true that MSW was not the greatest and did probably deserve to be sent home but it is also sure that both Snow and Allenby wanted a scapegoat for the lack of success in the attacks.

I beleive that MSW and Snow were both serving officers in the Sudan in 1884 and may well have been aware of each other over the years, this may have contributed to the fact he was left in command, as well as his 'royal' connections. Wether you buy into Haigs long arm coming into play remains to be seen. I tend to think that Allenby wanted a head to keep his and MSW fitted the bill in both that he was not good and that his division had not made good progress.

regards

Arm.