The Indian Army on the Western Front

[Steven Broomfield]

Just when you think you're able to have a break from expensive book purchasing ... along comes another one.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Indian-Army-Western-Front-Expeditionary/dp/1107027462/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1398580627&sr=1-1&keywords=george+morton-jack

Oddly, much of it seems to be available to read on-line here: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3HY9AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA274&lpg=PA274&dq=a+staff+officer+on+the+western+front&source=bl&ots=cttEQZx_sF&sig=Vj0NzFxNvbyoJRd0Plp4erbJE8Y&hl=en&sa=X&ei=iaRcU9yoMMWROLa9gegO&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=a%20staff%20officer%20on%20the%20western%20front&f=false

Anyone have any knowledge or opinions on this? Will Mrs Broomfield approve?

[chrissparrow]

Hmm....! Tempting, but really quite expensive.

Chris

[Steven Broomfield]

Mrs Broomfield thought the latter, but not the former.

[phil andrade]

Corrigan's SEPOYS IN THE TRENCHES is rather good...have you read it ? The price of the book alluded to is excessive unless you're absolutely fascinated by the Indian experience. If you are, then, in my experience, it's worth spending the money. The books that I most cherish, and refer to all the time, are those that were frighteningly expensive when I bought them. A good book will last you longer than ten bottles of wine on offer in the supermarket.

Perhaps you might consider taking Mrs Broomfield on a lovely day out to Brighton, with anecdotes about the Indian hospital that was set up in the Pavilion....and then a visit to the Indian Memorial on the Downs nearby : true and moving stories, never mind the splurge that's so annoyed you in The Crimson Fields.

After that, you might receive enthusiastic endorsement for the purchase.

Phil (PJA)

[Guest]

A bit cheaper at Hive

Mike

[Guest]

Pre-ordered. The Bibliography is extensive and quite impressive. It has all the characteristics of one of those academic tomes published by a University Press. I see that part of the Bibliography is a series of recorded interviews if veterans made in the 1970s owned by the author.

An interesting quote in the conclusion section suggests the Pathans saw proportionally heavier casualties as a proportion of population than Ulster or New Zealand whilst serving as volunteers for the British. How times have changed.

I thought Corrigan's book was poor and so did most of the reviewers. This should be a very welcome book on a part of the Great War that has not attracted enough reserchers in the past. My understanding of the Indian Army Corps in F&F is that without them filling a gap in 1914 things might have turned out slightly differently. I am still waiting for the War Diaries to be released digitally...sometime this year.

As an aside there is a memorial service on Sunday 8th June at the Indian Army War Memorial - a Chattri near Patcham on the south downs above Brighton to commemorate the Indian fallen. The memorial is sited over the sites of the funeral pyres from the Great War. The men who were being treated at Brighton Pavillion (being used as an Indian Army Hospital at the time) who had died of wounds were cremated at this site.

MG

[Chris_Baker]

I've always thought that Cambridge University Press output is unjustifiably expensive. I am sure this is a very good book, but at that price it can stay on the shelf.

[Gareth Davies]

It works out at about 20p per page which is only 10% more per page than The Edwardian Army by Bowman and Connelly.

[Steven Broomfield]

Perhaps you might consider taking Mrs Broomfield on a lovely day out to Brighton, with anecdotes about the Indian hospital that was set up in the Pavilion....and then a visit to the Indian Memorial on the Downs nearby : true and moving stories, never mind the splurge that's so annoyed you in The Crimson Fields.

After that, you might receive enthusiastic endorsement for the purchase.

Phil (PJA)

More likely a divorce.

I fear I am going to have to disagree with Mr Baker and Join Mr G ... pre-order here we come.

It works out at about 20p per page which is only 10% more per page than The Edwardian Army by Bowman and Connelly.

Which is also in my (ahem) "Extensive Library"

[Guest]

I never think of absolute cost. It is the value that matters. If this is as well researched as the 'look inside' pages promise it might be, I don't think I will regret it.

The acid test of course for a book on the Indian Army is any mention of the Bangalore Torpedo in 1914 (and improvised bits of trench warfare weaponry). I shall be sorely disappointed if this fails to get mentioned.

MG

[David Filsell]

Again a valuable book suffers from the short sightedness and appalling marketing by an academic publisher. No doubt the print run will be small - and hence the book will be very costly. The publicity will be poor and it will gain few reviews.

I have now made three calls to OUP, made two email requests for a review copy of a military book. I have not even received an acknowledgement. I intended to review for Stand Too!, to put on this forum and probably Mars and Clio (the British Commission for Military History magazine. Three key publications to reach. The result? Not even the courtesy of an acknowledgement or message telling me to bog off.

I spent many years in media relations - including for books - its not rocket science. Identify your market - the people and publications likely to review the book - and go for it.

I really have no idea where they recruit the numpties who are supposed to push academic books or those who produce and cost them. As Geo Boycott would say, "My grandmother could have done better,"

This work on the Indian Army like many other important works will end up on a few university library shelves. In case you have not realised I despair over these people. (By the way Gordon Corrigan's book is terrific)

Depairingly

David

[Guest]

(By the way Gordon Corrigan's book is terrific)

David

Blimey.

[Chris_Baker]

I never think of absolute cost.

You're a lucky man.

[seaforths]

A bit cheaper at Hive

Mike

And on the iBook Store at £50.99

[Dust Jacket Collector]

Come on, Chaps. If we're not prepared to pay for these books then no one's going to be prepared to write them. I imagine the return for the author is pretty minimal given the amount of research that has to be done and the relatively small potential readership.

[seaforths]

I think they would probably sell more copies and make more money if they dropped their prices (which they probably will end up doing eventually anyway). A particular book I wanted was on sale for quite a while at nearly £65 pounds. I have been keeping my eye on it and now that it has dropped to the £20 mark, I will buy it. I suspect more people will also buy it and like me, were put off by the original price.

[Steven Broomfield]

Afraid I agree with DJC: small print run because of a small interest makes it costly, but I'm afraid that's life.

[Guest]

You're a lucky man.

I would like to think it was something to do with hard work rather than luck . Price and value are of course very different things. You might pay £30 each for three books and find them worthless (academically) and 'worth-less' than ten pounds in a few years. By contrast sometimes these books can appreciate in value if one takes care of them....... there are a number of books that are trading in the market place at a huge premium to their original cost - most first editions of Regimental Histories for example. Try buying Jourdain's History of the Connaught Rangers (3 Vols). A very painful experience but a worthwhile one. Still as rare as hens teeth.

A random selection of books written in fairly recent times by academics on short print runs on my shelves (all Hardcover)

The Edwardian Army - Bowman and Connelly - still trading at £45.78 (take note Mr Broomfield)

The Medical War - Mark Harrison - still trading at £63.51

Medicine & Victory - Mark Harrison - trading at £91.00 Really.

England's Last Hope - Mitchinson - £49.95

British Army in Battle and Its Image 1914-18 (various authors) - £22.00 then the next is £53.78

...which are all selling for more than (I think) I paid for them.... a useful counterpoint with the memsahib.

A new copy of Ray Westlakes' British Regiments at Gallipoli is trading at £59.95 - three times more than its originial rrp of £19.95 published in 1996). If someone had bought two, kept one in mint contidion and sold it today they would be £20 up and still have the original book....and the next lowest is £69.98 (new).. if, if, if..... some book dealers occasionally buy up loose copies of scarce books simply to preserve the value of the book(s) in their own inventory. Palmer's Gardeners of Salonika was selling at a high premium before it was reprinted.

If one thinks in terms of depreciation of the value of a book over time, many modern books absolutely plummet in price only a few months after first publication. I can think of dozens of books on my shelves that are worth a fraction of what I paid for them - probably because they were larger print-runs. One of my last hardcover purchases - Slaughter on the Somme (£25) has already fallen -42% in value in about a year.

Anyway, horses for courses. It is rather a lottery but in my limited experience the 'academic' books tend to hold their value and often appreciate in value. I tend to think of £60 on a book in terms of equivalent cab rides or some other sacrifice I can make. I will have a few bus rides ahead of me next month, probably reading the book at the same time.

If there is a short run on this volume, maybe it will hold its value. MG

[seaforths]

Well this particular book seems to have lost £8 already between Amazon and iBooks depending on where you get it from and it hasn't even been released yet. While I am interested in getting it, I will sit it out. The electronic version has its pull because it will be searchable quickly and my house is in danger of collapsing from the weight of any more books so storage can become an issue.

[Guest]

Well this particular book seems to have lost £8 already between Amazon and iBooks depending on where you get it from and it hasn't even been released yet. While I am interested in getting it, I will sit it out. The electronic version has its pull because it will be searchable quickly and my house is in danger of collapsing from the weight of any more books so storage can become an issue.

There is value in having a book in one's hand and value in having a hard copy and value in having a first edition. I am a huge fan of digitisiation but I think in the long run original hard-back books will retain an element of spiritual as well as temporal value. MG

[seaforths]

I couldn't agree more but I find myself being more selective now of what I choose to purchase in hard copy. There is no feel like that of a real book in your hands but I suspect there is no sound like that of crumbling and collapsing bricks and mortar either.

[Muerrisch]

Afraid I agree with DJC: small print run because of a small interest makes it costly, but I'm afraid that's life.

Not necessarily so until the PUBLISHER gets the massive mark-up!

In front of me I have a copy of "The Edwardian Army". Very expensive to buy. Very ordinary binding, very ordinary paper, no illustrations ........... production cost well under £20 I guarantee, even in low print run. I suspect that many of these academic books are cobbled together from PhD theses by the "authors' pupils of course!

[David Filsell]

My point is simply that academic publishers seem so hung up on being up market academia oriented. Consequently they simply fail to promote their books properly - actually got them reviewed. If they did so,providing the book was worthwhile, and printed more - thus bringing the cost per unit down, they would sell more.

[Sepoy]

In the early 1990's, when I was involved in publishing, my business partner and myself decided to reprint several long "out of print" publications. Knowing that they were going to have limited print runs, and after investigating various UK printers, we eventually chose a company in New Dehli, India, due to a reasonable unit cost (including shipping!).

The binding and paper quality was superb - pagination, however, was unfortunately varied. In the end we just lived with, due to the problems of taking legal action in India, but I was so pleased that my Father volunteered to check each book prior sale. (there were hundreds of them!). Even so it caused the costs to spiral and, in hindsight, we should have picked one of the University presses!

As a result, if I return to publishing it will be ebooks only.......

Sepoy

[Dust Jacket Collector]

I think they would probably sell more copies and make more money if they dropped their prices.

I suspect the author would be the one most likely to be squeezed if the publishers cut their prices. If you look at the general sales figures for most non-fiction titles, celebrity memoirs & cookery books aside, they are usually surprisingly low. A work like this on such a specialised subject would be extremely unlikely to sell many copies whatever the price. How many of us would be prepared to spend several years producing a book with, I imagine, this level of scholarship, for what probably equates to a month or two's wages?