Aussie East Lancs officers

[PhilB]

The query below appeared in a Blackburn paper. I suspect that the QLR spokesman may have it wrong and that these men would have enlisted in UK. Anybody care to comment? Phil B

First published on Thursday 07 October 2004:

Oz riddle of QLR soldiers

MYSTERY plaques which commemorate the lives of two former Queen's Lancashire Regiment soldiers have been unearthed in a park in Australia.

Now former Blackburn man Wally Halstead - who emigrated Down Under 30 years ago - is hoping the people of East Lancashire can help solve the riddle.

Wally contacted the Evening Telegraph after spotting plaques in a park in Perth commemorating two officers of the East Lancashire Regiment - which later became known as the QLR - who died in World War One.

The plaques were pinned to trees in King's Park among thousands of others honouring Western Australians who fell in both World Wars.

One plaque honours Second Lieutenant Vernon Lee Walker, of the 8th East Lancashire Regiment, who was killed in action on May 28, 1917, at Monchey Le Preux, France, aged 21. The other is dedicated to Captain W.E.B Lowe of the 2nd East Lancashire Regiment, who was killed in action in Rheims, France, on May 28, 1918, aged 24.

Further research by the QLR museum in Preston has revealed that both men were Australian.

Captain Lowe was from Adelaide and was awarded the Military Cross twice before his death, while Second Lieutenant Walker was from Cottesloe, Western Australia.

But it is a mystery how the pair came to be serving in the East Lancashire Regiment.

Mr Halstead said: "The memorials in the park are in recognition of those Australians killed in the service of their country from the Boer War onward, while the plaques marking the trees honour those who fell in both World Wars.

"I came across the two plaques remembering the memories of the two East Lancashire soldiers quite by chance and it struck me as highly unusual that these lads were honoured alongside all the West Australians."

QLR Director of Communications Roger Goodwin said: "There is no way of knowing, but my guess is that both of these chaps were employed in Australia before the war.

"Along with tens of thousands of men they would have joined up when the war started. What they were doing in East Lancashire I don't know, but by that stage of the war people were being transferred between regiments all over the world to fill gaps."

[Guest Russell.Gore@crawley.gov.uk]

if you delve into SDGW there seems to be a large number of Americans that enlisted in the British Army,whilst living in America,i have yet to work this one out ?

[christine liava'a]

The Australians in the East Lanc Reg't is not really very surprising.

Firstly, many Australians and NZers were just 1st generation born in that country and had family back in Britain.

Secondly, colonials who could afford it often went back to Britain, either on a visit, to visit relatives, or permanently. They were British Subjects and could do this easily. There are many overseas born people mentioned in the various censuses

Thirdly, the British Govt offered commissions to persons from the Empire, right from the beginning of the war

So, they could have been in Britain of their own free will and enlisted there, or they could have gone there as part of a commissioning scheme, or, particularly if they lived in a port town,which Perth is, they could have caught a ship immediately war was announced, gone straight to Britain, and enlisted there.

Which regiment they ended up in, would depend on factors in Britain.

Check the NAA records to see if there is any mention of them there.

[GavinH]

Coincidently, I have a quite a lot of research on Lieut Arthur Allan Orme Davenport MC. He was commssioned into the 2/East Lancs in 1915, and KIA in 1918 while attached to the 1/4th Battalion. Lt Davenport was from St Kilda in Melbourne. The following obituary is from Melbourne Grammar School:

"ARTHUR ALLEN ORME DAVENPORT who was killed in action in France on 24th March 1918 was the son of Dr. A. F. Davenport. He was born in 1891 and entered the Preparatory School in 1903 and came up to the Senior School in 1906. At the end of 1907 he left for Geelong Grammar School, where he became captain of the school and twice stroked the crew in the Head of the River races. He left for England in March 1915 to enlist in the British Army, and gained a commission in the 2nd Battalion of the East Lancashire Regiment. He was sent to Gallipoli, serving there until the Evacuation in December 1915 and he obtained an acting Captaincy under fire. After the Evacuation he saw service in Egypt and the Sinai Desert for 12 months and was then transferred to France, where he fought in many engagements on the Somme until he was dangerously wounded at Arras in May 1917 whilst leading his men over the German trenches. He was Mentioned in Despatches "for general good leadership and gallantry. He has done good work during the period November 1915 to April 1917 and set a most excellent example to those serving under him." He was also awarded the Military Cross. He was invalided to London but rejoined his battalion in January 1918 and was with it when it bore the first brunt of the great German offensive of March of that year.His battalion was practically annihilated, he being killed instantly. He was buried in Rosieres Cemetery"

He actually died of wounds on the 24/03/1918. He is not recorded on the Australian War Memorial Roll of Honour Site, which it something I'm hoping to rectify if I can.

Regards

Gavin

[Guest bonza]

Co-incidently, my grandson attends Geelong Grammar.

Whilst at the junior school, Glamorgan, he did his project on Simpson.

There is a book honouring past pupils who went to war: I don't have it, but will now certainly check Arthur Davenport.

On the background topic theme, Martin Barrington comes to mind.

Pat Gavan

[Andrew P]

I've come the following examples in my Fremantle research.

Firstly, several men who were reservists with British regiments had been living in Australia for a few years when war was declared and were called back to their regiments in Britain.

Secondly, some fearing that the Australian Army wouldn't get to France either travelled to Britain to enlist there or might have cabled ahead to secure a place in a regiment which may have been through family connections.

Thirdly, after service in Gallipoli or France a large number of men were given commissions to serve in the Indian Army or British Regiments. A Lt Morgan who served in the 11th Battalion AIF at Gallipoli later went this way to serve with one of the battalions of the Welch Regiment.

Fourthly, there were many Australians working or studying in England at the outbreak of war. Some wanted to serve with the Australian forces but others were content to serve with British units. As an example, one such man I'm researching was Fremantle man, Robert Walker who at the outbreak of war was studying medicine at Edinburgh Univeristy. He was a member of the Naval Reserve and so when war was declared he offered his services and was made Surgeon Probationer on HMS Shark which subsequently was sunk in the Battle of Jutland.

Hope this assists.

Regards

Andrew

[PhilB]

Thirdly, after service in Gallipoli or France a large number of men were given commissions to serve in the Indian Army or British Regiments.

That comes as a surprise to me, Andrew. Especially the "large number" bit. I don`t suppose it would happen the other way around - UK ORs commissioned into the AIF? How did they finish up with too many potential officers for their own use? Or did the men request commissions into UK regiments? Phil B

[GavinH]

There is a book honouring past pupils who went to war: I don't have it, but will now certainly check Arthur Davenport.

Thanks Pat. I'd be very interested to know what Geelong Grammar School has on Lieut Davenport. The Melbourne Grammar School Roll of Honour had a very good portrait photograph of him, as well as the obituary. If anyones interested, let me know, and I'll post a scan.

Regards

Gavin

[Guest bonza]

Will chase it up Gav.

The 1st History of the 7th Bn was written by Dean & Gutteridge. One or both of them went to Melbourne Grammar.

Pat

Christine

I meant the person, but it appears both were imaginary.

Pat

[Andrew P]

Thirdly, after service in Gallipoli or France a large number of men were given commissions to serve in the Indian Army or British Regiments.

That comes as a surprise to me, Andrew. Especially the "large number" bit. I don`t suppose it would happen the other way around - UK ORs commissioned into the AIF? How did they finish up with too many potential officers for their own use? Or did the men request commissions into UK regiments? Phil B

Hi Phil

A 'large number' may have been stretching it a bit on my part, but it did occur quite often.

In many of the Australian battalion histories there are mentioned men that went on to serve with British or Indian regiments through the war. I believe one of the main reasons for requesting a transfer was that some men had an eye for staying in the permanent army after the war and believed that being in the Indian Army or with a UK based regiment would assist with this more than staying in the AIF.

Harry Murray was arguably Australia's best known soldier of the first war and was almost lost to us in such a way. He rose from the ranks at Gallipoli as a member of the 16th Battalion Machine Gun section and when he was commissioned in the field he was going to be sent to the 29th Division at Helles when the commander of the 13th Bn AIF intervened and instead Murray was sent to the 13th Bn with whom he won his VC in 1917 before commanding the 4th MG Battalion in 1918.

Regards

Andrew