Chalford War Memorial

[Simon_Fielding]

Seemed too good to be true! Are you aware of this resource? Might be worth a look if not....

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=194623&hl=

[Simon_Fielding]

Testing

[HeatherC]

Yes Simon we are aware of it thanks and have got quite a few pictures from it. Fantastic resource. And no for some reason I didn't see the post you made this morning and the thread only just updated with the evening one - no idea why...

[Simon_Fielding]

Cumming_A_L_2nd_Lt_Royal_Flying_Corps.pdfI think there is precedent for AL Cumming's name to be on a memorial sponsored by his aunts and uncles. He appears on memorials in Broadheath :

http://www.rememberthefallen.co.uk/Casualties/ListByMemorial/Broadheath%20Village%20Hall

and Hallow, which are the Worcestershire village where his uncle lived:

Cuming, Robert

Dalton

Stevenson

Lieutenant

(1877)/Commander(1890)/Captain

(1897)/Rear Admiral (1907)/Vice Admiral

(1911)/Admiral and Captain in Charge of

Naval Reserve (1915)

Royal Navy (1866)- HMS

Britannia/Dreadnought/G

un vessel HMY (Yacht)

Falcon (1884)/Caledonia/

HMY Aries

Born 10 Sept 1852, Robert Dalton Stevenson Cuming was the second son

of Colonel Cumming of Coulter, nr Cheltenham. (He changed his surname

to Cuming by deed poll in 1913.) He joined the Navy in Sept 1866 and

served on HMS Britannia. He served as Lieutenant (1877- gunship Falcon)

in the Sudan Campaign of 1884-85 and was awarded the Egyptian Medal

and the Khedive’s Bronze Star. Having retired in 1900, he joined the War

effort in 1914 assisting with recruitment, and supporting the care of

wounded soldiers at Norton Barracks, and elsewhere. In 1915 he was put

in command of armed yachts hunting enemy submarines in the North Sea.

For this service he received the C.B.E. and D.S.O. He and his wife,

Henrietta Florence (nee Gibson-Craig) moved to Worcestershire and lived

from 1914 – 1919 at Eastbury Manor. (Further details are given under

'Hallow in Wartime' and 'People of Note'

http://www.hallowhistory.org.uk/about-the-village/hallow-in-wartime-2/life-in-world-war-i/people-of-note/

[HeatherC]

Thanks once again Simon, what a fascinating family they are turnig out to be. So it seems ALC has already been remembered twice on a memorial where his family in the UK were living. Now if only I could find out why they'd have chosen Chalford!

By the way the Vicar at the time the Chalford memorial was unveiled was called Addenbrooke. He is in 1911 as Albert Edward Addenbrooke with his two spinster sisters Amy and Laura.

His Crockford's entry shows he was previously with the Gloucester Diocesan Mission but had been vicar in Chalford since 1903. After Chalford he went to Chipping Sodbury and then to St Stephens Cheltenham which is of course the parish the Cumming family were so involved in. This is in 1926, well after the Chalford memorial was finished but it's another tantalising strand of connection!

[Simon_Fielding]

Glos Echo 24 11 1942

FUNERAL OF REV. A. E. ADDENBROOKE ; The Bishop of Tewkesr bury (the Rt. Rev. A. J. Hodson) was among those ' who attended the funeral service for the Rev. Albert ' Edward Addenbrooke, of Lindfield, Coronation-road, Cheltenham, which took place on Monday St. Stephen's Church, Chel! tenham, of which the late , Mr. Addenbrooke was r Vicar from 1926 to 1936. The service was conducted by the Rev. G. F. Hilder, Vicar of St. Stephen's, and other clergymen who took part in the service were the Rev. R. H. ; Sutch (Vicar of Cirencester, > who succeeded Mr. Adden> brooke at St. Stephen's), the Rev. Baghot De-la Bere (Vicar I of Prestbury), and the Rev. [ Percy West (assistant priest of St. Stephen's). Canon P. M. C. Johnstone, Vicar of All Saints', was also present. OLD FRIENDS Among the congregation were many members of St. Stephen's during Mr. Adden. brooke's ministry at the church. These included Mr. W. H. Jessop and Mr. E. H. E. Hope (church wardens). Two hymns, " When our Heads are bowed with Woe " and "Just as I am, without one Plea," were sung, and the 39th Psalm, " I said I will take heed to Ways," was said. Mr. Claude Townley, organist of St. Stephen's, accompanied, and played "O Rest in the Lord" as the cortege proceeded from the chancel. A Requiem Mass was celebrated at St.'Stephen's earlier in the day. The immediate mourners were Mr. and Mrs. G. L. Addenbrooke (brother and sister-in-law), of Chalfont St. Giles; Lieut.-Col. Marston and Mrs. Marston (niece); Miss Lucy Greenwood (close friend); Mr. A. E. Bryant, Miss .Jay Jones and Miss Gertrude Jones, and Miss K. Abell. 1 Several friends of the late Mr. Addenbrooke joined the funeral party at Prestbury, where the interment took place. FLORAL TRIBUTES Floral tributes were sent by Mr and Mrs. G. L. Addenbrooke and family; Miss B. Smith, Mrs. K. Chester and staff of Ash Priors Nursing Home; Miss Jay Jones and Mis?. Gertrude Jones; Miss Lucy Greenwood and Mrs. L. G. Richardson. The funeral arrangements were carried out by Messrs. \ Shirers and Lances, of Chel- tenham. 2

[HeatherC]

Very interesting Simon. So the Vicar of Chalford who succeeded Addenbrooke went on to be Bishop and conducted his funeral at the Church which had such strong connections with the Cumming family. The wife of Robert Cumming junior (the Admiral not the Colonel) was a Baghot-de-la-Bere so another name that pops up in connection with the local church! Still can't prove the direct Chalford connection but it's all looking very likely.

I did say we had 6 we could not find (it's actually 7) but have only so far posted 4 stories. Here's the next puzzle, though actually it's more of a story about what we think may have happened to get a mis-spelling on the memorial and give one man a double entry:

H. Fowden

There is only one CWGC entry

26905 Pte H Fowden, Border Regt

Born Manchester, enlisted Lancashire

Son of Samuel and Mary Fowden (both from Lancs) of Harpurhey, Manchester

Fowden seems to be a Lancashire / Cheshire surname and I can find no link to anywhere near Chalford.

Howevere there's something odd about this one. The name Fowden does not appear on any of the other local memorials (as I explained above, the modern Chalford memorial is an amalgamation of the names from a variety of surrounding villages) or on any of the rolls of honour or lists of men serving published by the Stroud News.

Here's a possible second theory.

The old Chalford memorial plaques have an entry for Harry Dowden as does the Roll of honour from the Stroud News

The France Lynch memorial has Harry Dowding and the Chalford area Roll of Honour has "H Dowding Pte, killed in action 27 Aug 1916"

CWGC gives the name of the man who died on 27 Aug 1916 as 4146 Pte Harry Dowden 1/5 Glos but has no entry for Dowding on this date.

So Dowden and Dowding seem to be the same man, though why both names appear on the Chalford roll of Honour from the Stroud News is a mystery.

Contemporary newspaper report says he was an orphan brought up by a Bisley couple who enlisted under age (and was killed the day after his 17th birthday) which might explain some of the name confusion. His MIC notes he died intestate and his medals were returned.

Did he get put on the memorial twice, once as Dowding and once as Fowden? (mis-spelling for Dowden)

[Simon_Fielding]

It looks like DOWDEN was also spelt DEWDEN in the Western Daily Press 23 9 16

and there's this in the 1911 :

I'd go with Occam's razor - misspelling!

S

[Simon_Fielding]

This was new to me Heather - have you used it? Quite a portfolio for the De Beres!

http://www.glos1909survey.org.uk/index.html

[HeatherC]

Simon - thta's an amazing resource - possibly more for family history than for here but I already found my great great grandfather and a description of his house in Chalford! Thanks once again for finding another untapped source

Heather

[David_Underdown]

The two Randalls from Bisley are also listed on the Roll of Honour of the Central Council for Church Bell Ringers (the original roll is kept in the bell tower at St Paul's), http://www.cccbr.org.uk/rolls/casualties/?warID=1#R. The Ringing World also contains brief mentions of William Dean, he was serving with 8th Glosters by 4 February 1916, and on 8 September 1916 was reported to have been wounded on 3 July and subsequently at home on leave until 28 August. He seems to have recovered pretty well though as he was fit enough to ring a peal of Grandsire Doubles on 26 August (this would have taken around 3 hours); also mentioned is Arthur Cooke, with 13th Glosters by 4 February 1916. Cuthbert Randall is also named as being with 9th Glosters on 4 Febraury 1916, I've not yet found any other mentions of him, nor the other Randall.

[HeatherC]

Thanks David. The Randall brothers are two that we have a lot of information about, as not only did Nick Thornicroft cover them in detail in his excellent book "Rural Scarifice - the War Dead of Bisley, Eastcombe and Oakridge 1914-18", which has been of huge help to us, but also letters written by Levison Randall survive and apparently provide some fascinating details.

[David_Underdown]

If you don't already have photos of their graves, Alan Regin, who looks after the roll of honour, probably does (contact details are on http://www.cccbr.org.uk/rolls/gtw/) - though I don't know if he's got to Salonika yet! I'm sure he'd be very interested to hear about the letters too.

[HeatherC]

Still two more stories to tell of men on the current Chalford memorial that we can't indentify. Here's the first (number 6 overall)

F Matthews

The older memorial plaque in the Chalford Tabernacle (Baptist) has an entry for "Frederick Matthews", so this one isn't a spelling mistake or transcription error!

There's a write up in the local paper (Stroud News) in August 1917 reporting the death in action in France of Frederick Matthews the "son of Mr Ed Matthews late of Chalford .. had been out there nearly two years and was 24 years of age". Frederick is said to have left a widow and child. The family are said to have lived in Chalford for over 40 years where the father had taught at the Tabernacle Sunday school and the family had moved away to Coventry before the war.

The family are easy to find (they are the only Matthews family to appear in 1871-1901 censuses in Chalford) but they have no son called Frederick!

Edward (b Rodborough abt 1849 stick worker)

Flora A (b Arlingham abt 1845, tailoress)

Edith M (b Bisley 1879)

Emily Matilda (b 1881 Bisley)

Ellen (b 1882 Bisley)

Alfred (b 1888 Bisley).

1911 census says "5 children born, 4 living" and in any case it seems that unlikely Frederick (b about 1893) would not be in 1901 or 1911 family census entries if he was their son

SDGW/ CWGC both have an entry for what looks like their son Alfred

Alfred Edward Matthews b Chelford (sic) Gloucester, 19229 Pte 1st Bn Royal Warwickshire Regt, enlisted Coventry, killed in action 18 Jul 1918, commemorated on the Loos Memorial.

This can't be the son written about in the newspaper in 1917 if he wasn't killed until 1918 and in any case the age is way out. Alfred is about 30, not 24.

There are several Frederick Matthews killed around the right time (going back say three months before the newspaper report) but none of them really match. These two are the nearest:

Frederick William Matthews, 20817 Pte 8th Glos, died 9 July 1917. Born Staffordshire, living Manchester, enlisted Salisbury

Frederick William Matthews 37256 Pte 12th Glos, died of wounds 9 May 1917 aged 23, born Herton, Glos, enlisted Gloucester. CWGC addds that he was the " Son of Frederick W. and Mary Ann Matthews, of Badminton, Glos" so that seems to count him out.

Just as we were beginning to wonder if Frederick had really existed, up popped an account in the Stroud News of his mother's funeral in 1912 which describes her as "Mrs Edward Matthews well known in Chalford, a member of the Tabernacle, where her husband had been upwards of forty years a teacher of the Infants' class in the Sunday School". It goes on to say she was 70 (which matches the mother of the family above), that they had left Chalford in 1912 and that mourners at the funeral included Mr and Mrs Frederick Matthews.

So who is he? Seems unlikely that the Tabernacle memorial would have the name wrong when the family were so well known there.

An Albert Edward Matthews was married in Coventry District in 1914 and he and his wife had a son Robert J in 1915, so the description of the son who died having a wife and child fits, but how could the Stroud News report on him in 1917 if he didn't die till 1918!

This one is a real puzzle!

[KevinBattle]

Might I suggest that the age of 24 in the report "may" have been his age on enlistment, perhaps shortly after his mothers death in 1912?

Perhaps some whiz on Service Numbers might know if he served pre WW1?

"Frederick" could be the newspaper report changing "Fred" assuming it to be short for Frederick rather than Alfred.

(We've all come across "Bert" being ALbert, Hubert or HERbert for example).

My feeling is 19229 Alfred Edward as not only does he have a link to Chalford but also to Coventry where the family are reported to have moved to.

Another route might be to find his widow and what became of her, did she remarry or die in the Coventry area etc?

The WFA are reported to be preparing Pension Records for release this autumn, perhaps they may help?

I can't explain the confusion with dying in 1917 and 1918, except to say that not all reported deaths were correct.....

The AlBERT Edward Matthews married in 1914, so unlikely to be reported in 1912 as married (unless 1st wife died after 1912 and before 1914) so possibly a different man...

[HeatherC]

Hi Kevin and thanks for the reply. The more I looked at this the more convinced I was that it is Alfred Edward. You picked up both my stupid slip-ups in the previous post, apologies for them - the mother's funeral was 1915 not 1912 (1912 was the date the family left Chalford) so that does still fit and the man marrying in 1914 was ALFRED Edward not ALBERT (the problem with a project like this is you have so many names and dates going round in your head!)

We've gone back over the original notes from the Stroud News and we now think the report was indeed August 1918 (but has been noted down by us wrong as 1917 - you know how it is when you look at microfilm for hours and no it's not me in our Group who has the dedication to do that!) so that fits too. Good thought on trying to track the widow and son.

The one real oddity is the first name. It's not just the Stroud News calling him Frederick - the original Chalford Tabernacle memorial plaque does too. I'd not normally expect an Alfred to be called Frederick..

[Simon_Fielding]

This chap might be worth a a look:

Name: Fred Matthews

Age in 1911: 23

Estimated birth year: abt 1888

Relation to Head: Boarder

Gender: Male

Birth Place: Charlford, Gloucestershire, England

Civil Parish: Coventry County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England

Street address: 103 Much Park Street, Coventry

Marital Status: Single

Occupation: Baker

Registration district: Coventry Registration District Number: 390 Sub-registration district: St John ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Piece: 18517

Household Members: Name Age Annie Perkins 57 Fred Perkins 22 Elsie Perkins 17 Fred Matthews 23 William Knights 24

[Simon_Fielding]

Year Of Marriage 1914

First name(s) ALFRED E

Last name MATTHEWS

Marriage quarter 1

Marriage year 1914

Registration month -

ALFRED E MATTHEWS married

ADELA L WIDDOWS

Name: Lilian Adela Widdows

Age in 1911: 26

Estimated birth year: abt 1885

Relation to Head: Daughter

Gender: Female

Birth Place: Chilvers Coton

Civil Parish: Coventry

County/Island: Warwickshire

Country: England

Street address: 16 Leicester Causeway Coventry

Marital Status: Single

Occupation: Typhist

Registration district: Coventry

Registration District Number: 390

Sub-registration district: Holy Trinity

ED, institution, or vessel: 42

Piece: 18580

Household Members:

Name Age

James Widdows 42

Eleanor Kirk Widdows 45

Lilian Adela Widdows 26

Eleanor Annie Widdows 17

Mary Wheatley 74

Ann Giles 66

[Simon_Fielding]

Adele remarried John S Moreton in 1921,had a daughter Olive, but there was a child by Alfred - who seems to have been alive until recently.

[Simon_Fielding]

Sorry yes Robert J as you said

[HeatherC]

Hi Simon

I already had the marriage entry but somehow I had completely missed that 1911 Fred Matthews entry! I do believe we might have cracked this one - thank you so much for your perseverence. It does seem like he was known as Fred and so maybe it was just assumed both by the local paper and the people who erected the Tabernacle Memorial that it was short for Frederick. Of course as no-one from the family lived in the area any more they may not have even seen the memorial tablet!

[Simon_Fielding]

Sounds good to me. On the memorials I've done I've had William BISHOP enlisting under his mother's maiden name of WREN; Thomas MOBBERLEY failing to enlist in 1914, ,enlisting in 1916 as Thomas BIRD, his stepfather's name, but on the memorial as MOBBERLEY; MINTON listed as MILTON; PARGETTER JONES as PARCETTER JONES; no end of inconsistent hyphens for RICHARD STANLEY BAKER!

[Simon_Fielding]

The new Airman's Records on FMP have a record for Alfred Lionel Cumming - gives his uncle's address Eastbury Manor Hallow, Worcester when he attests Dec 1916 - still no link to Chalford! Discharged to commission 12/4/17.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=213697#entry2113527

[HeatherC]

Thanks Simon - how frustrating still no Chalford connection!

I still haven't posted my last story because the name involved is Gardiner and as anyone who has done Gloucestershire research will know, this is a bit like being called Jones in Wales! I'm still working out how to post it without writing 6 pages of explanation.

[Simon_Fielding]

Just done a Gardiner / Chalford search and I see what you mean! Are we taikng about W Gardiner 3/5 Glos?