Guest Posted 3 July , 2014 Share Posted 3 July , 2014 Hello... can anyone recommend a book that focuses on First Ypres? Edit: not battlefield guides. I have the diaries and Regimental histories, Divisional histories etc and the OH... I hope someone has done this phase of 1914 some justice. Any pointers would be gratefully received. I suspect it would need multiple volumes to cover it properly. Thanks in advance. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 3 July , 2014 Share Posted 3 July , 2014 I thought Ian Beckett's "Ypres the first battle 1914" 2004 (Pearson-Longman) ISBN 1-4058-3620-2 was well researched and readable. I am not sure what level of detail you are looking for but it was the best overview concentrating on the early fighting I have read. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 3 July , 2014 Share Posted 3 July , 2014 I thought Ian Beckett's "Ypres the first battle 1914" 2004 (Pearson-Longman) ISBN 1-4058-3620-2 was well researched and readable. I am not sure what level of detail you are looking for but it was the best overview concentrating on the early fighting I have read. Chris Blimey. Beckett? I had no idea he had written about Ypres. Thank you thank you thank you. Joy. MG My neighbours just came back from a tour where he was the speaker and they tell me he was brilliant. I have a few of his books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamRev Posted 3 July , 2014 Share Posted 3 July , 2014 For some really useful basic facts, maps and photos, First Ypres by David Lomas in Osprey's "Campaign" series is surprisingly good. William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelcave Posted 3 July , 2014 Share Posted 3 July , 2014 Jack Sheldon's The German Army at Ypres 1914; alas, Battlefield Guides (well about 20% of the book), Jack and my trilogy of books on Ypres 1914 in the Battleground series, Langemarck, Messines and Menin Road. Langemarck is out, the two others should be out by the end of September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgranger Posted 3 July , 2014 Share Posted 3 July , 2014 Farrar-Hockley 'Death of an Army' is another. And there's 'Wipers' by Tim Carew, but that's a 'popular' history, and not in the same league as Beckett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem49 Posted 3 July , 2014 Share Posted 3 July , 2014 Martin I seem to have two copies of Beckett's book. If you want it, let me know. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 3 July , 2014 Share Posted 3 July , 2014 I thought Ian Beckett's "Ypres the first battle 1914" 2004 (Pearson-Longman) ISBN 1-4058-3620-2 was well researched and readable. Chris 100% agreed. A fine and informative read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 3 July , 2014 Share Posted 3 July , 2014 Jack Sheldon's The German Army at Ypres 1914; alas, Battlefield Guides (well about 20% of the book), Jack and my trilogy of books on Ypres 1914 in the Battleground series, Langemarck, Messines and Menin Road. Langemarck is out, the two others should be out by the end of September. Nigel. Great. Thank you. Already ordered. What do I have to pay you guys to get the info that the publishers cut out? I assume there is a limit to the pages and given you two have done so much research, I suspect there is more wonderful research not in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 3 July , 2014 Share Posted 3 July , 2014 Martin I seem to have two copies of Beckett's book. If you want it, let me know. Steve Steve. A very kind offer. Thank you. I will PM you tomorrow with a list of surplus books I have that you may want in way of payment. It does not include a very excellent book on the 9th Bn Sherwood Foresters... Ubique. MG For some really useful basic facts, maps and photos, First Ypres by David Lomas in Osprey's "Campaign" series is surprisingly good. William Thanks. I would agree. MG Farrar-Hockley 'Death of an Army' is another. And there's 'Wipers' by Tim Carew, but that's a 'popular' history, and not in the same league as Beckett. Can you expand on FH? I am on the deep diving detail side... and FH doesn't strike me as detailed. I may be wrong.... MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 3 July , 2014 Share Posted 3 July , 2014 I am awaiting delivery of a copy of David Ascoli's The Mons Star which covers the BEF From Mons to 1st Ypres. If the confirmation note is correct I should get it tomorrow. Will post a first assesment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 3 July , 2014 Share Posted 3 July , 2014 I am awaiting delivery of a copy of David Ascoli's The Mons Star which covers the BEF From Mons to 1st Ypres. If the confirmation note is correct I should get it tomorrow. Will post a first assesment. I used to think it was brilliant...then I started to research... I am no longer such an ardent fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelcave Posted 3 July , 2014 Share Posted 3 July , 2014 Nigel. Great. Thank you. Already ordered. What do I have to pay you guys to get the info that the publishers cut out? I assume there is a limit to the pages and given you two have done so much research, I suspect there is more wonderful research not in the books. Well ... The three books together will probably be in the 700 page region for 1st Ypres; c. 20% guide material. The French and the Belgians are, of course, discussed, but one has to be honest and although the very important - indeed decisive - role is underlined, the books essentially deal with the British and the Germans (and some of the Indian Army Corps, of course). The problem with First Ypres is trying to make sense of what precisely went on at precise points: not only are WDs not particularly wonderful, generally, but in many cases they would have been nigh on impossible to write in a meaningful way. Many units had companies hived off, many got amalgamated, some all but disappeared off the ORBAT altogether. The highly effective process of puttying up meant that brigade orbats - and divisional (even corps) ones, for that matter - changed with bewildering rapidity. Throw in the fact that for almost everyone - well, probably everyone - involved they were fighting over unfamiliar terrain, often in close country and with utterly inadequate maps. Then add on the casualty rate amongst senior offficers and their staffs: I doubt actually if anyone is going to do much better than the OH account as an overall picture. A significant amount of that made use of interviews with officers who were there, verbally or by correspondence. So, in the end, we shall never get a 'true' account - in so far as you ever can for any battle above a skirmish - and even that's not a given, I suspect. However, you will be able to spot themes, you will be able to spot key moments, you will be able to spot fine achievements: all of this, naturally, from the comfort of the proverbial armchair. I have said this before but it does not hurt to repeat it - the performance of command at all levels in the BEF at Ypres was, I think, notably good. The men put up with terrible conditions, even if there were signs of a distinct sagging in performance in the fag end days of the fighting. To this must be added the remarkable performance of the Belgians on the Yser and of the French; and one might add that this was a battle where the much mentioned friction between the French and the British just did not occur - in fact, generally, they worked extremely well together. I fear that Lanrezac has much to answer for by putting relationships oin such a disastrous footing so early on at Mons. On the German side, Jack deals with the inadequacies of things there - but to understand their situation more fully, given the fighting before the Yser - you really need to read his more extensive book in his German Army series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgranger Posted 4 July , 2014 Share Posted 4 July , 2014 Steve. A very kind offer. Thank you. I will PM you tomorrow with a long list of surplus books I have that you may want in way of payment. It does not include a very excellent book on the 9th Bn Sherwood Foresters... Ubique. MG Thanks. I would agree. MG Can you expand on FH? I am on the deep diving detail side... and FH doesn't strike me as detailed. I may be wrong.... MG Martin The FH book is not very detailed. It's a broadbrush narrative, based mostly on secondary sources, and with little in the way of source references. It's also getting on for 50 years old so not particularly up to date. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 7 July , 2014 Share Posted 7 July , 2014 Martin I seem to have two copies of Beckett's book. If you want it, let me know. Steve Steve Book arrived today. Many thanks. Donation to British Legion done. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem49 Posted 7 July , 2014 Share Posted 7 July , 2014 Pleased it arrived safely and I hope it is useful. The RBL helped me a lot when I 'fought' the MoD, so thanks for the donation. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFox100 Posted 16 July , 2014 Share Posted 16 July , 2014 I thought Ian Beckett's "Ypres the first battle 1914" 2004 (Pearson-Longman) ISBN 1-4058-3620-2 was well researched and readable. I am not sure what level of detail you are looking for but it was the best overview concentrating on the early fighting I have read. Chris I am reading this at the moment and I have found it is providing good detail for my needs and very much maintaining my interest in it. I think so far well written. Would thoroughly recommend. As an aside and in one of the posts in this thread, would agree that some of the war diaries generally are very short on any detail and boringly written, obviously did not want to be writing them. Equally, some of them make great reading and full of detail, depends what you have got I suppose. Regards. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelcave Posted 16 July , 2014 Share Posted 16 July , 2014 In some respects I find it pretty extraordinary that anything got written at all; whilst a good number of entries were quite likely written after the event and were based on some jotted notes or recollections. You just have to look at some of the casualties, the dispersed nature of units (as I mentioned above), amalgamations of units as the battle went on, confused recollections - the 7th Div historian, writing on First Ypres, makes this point in a footnote when he comments on contradictory war diary accounts, timings and even dates for the same action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now