Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 20 October , 2015 Share Posted 20 October , 2015 Douglas MacArthur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 20 October , 2015 Share Posted 20 October , 2015 Douglas MacArthur? No. This chap's GW service was not Army or Navy or Air. He served under ten Presidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 20 October , 2015 Share Posted 20 October , 2015 J Edgar Hoover??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 20 October , 2015 Share Posted 20 October , 2015 Dai, I think you may have it, although I've said that before and ended up with oeuf sur le visage. I gave the clue a thought about three hours ago and didn't return to it. Curses. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 21 October , 2015 Share Posted 21 October , 2015 J Edgar Hoover??? Yes! The sinister J Edgar. During the GW, starting as he meant to go on, he was the head of the Alien Enemy Bureau; he was authorised by President Wilson to arrest and jail foreigners without trial. http://www.politicalaffairs.net/wwi-and-the-rise-of-j-edgar-hoover-by-norman-markowitz/ The photograph in post #3122 shows him in his High School cadet outfit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 21 October , 2015 Share Posted 21 October , 2015 The photograph in post #3122 shows him in his High School cadet outfit. Ah. I was initially thinking West Point graduates, but the uniform wasn't right. The "served under ten Presidents" was a very useful clue as it made me think of a very long public service, so Hoover was in the frame But when I looked up Hoover, I found he hadn't been to WP, and seemed to have no conventional military service anyway. But he looked familiar, despite a lot of his face being obscured by the cap visor. Good puzzle UG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 21 October , 2015 Share Posted 21 October , 2015 OK. Here's one from Wales. A little bit of a cause celebre at the time. As you can see, he is not in uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 21 October , 2015 Share Posted 21 October , 2015 Is he poet and conscientious objector David James Jones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 21 October , 2015 Share Posted 21 October , 2015 No he is not. Clue: He is not known primarily as a poet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 21 October , 2015 Share Posted 21 October , 2015 No he is not. Clue: He is not known primarily as a poet. Is he Morgan Jones - imprisoned as a conscientious objector yet elected as an MP in the twenties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 21 October , 2015 Share Posted 21 October , 2015 Is he Morgan Jones - imprisoned as a conscientious objector yet elected as an MP in the twenties? It isn't , but you are of course correct that he was a conscientious objector, He was born in Merthyr Tydfil, a Baptist, but was in Anglesey in 1917 when his case came to prominence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 21 October , 2015 Share Posted 21 October , 2015 Staying with the Joneses, is it Glyn? (Nice one UG. Hoover was a good puzzler) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 21 October , 2015 Share Posted 21 October , 2015 No. Not Jones. Not Davies. Not Williams. Not Rees. Not Roberts. Not Morgan. Not James. Not Owens. Not Francis. Not Lee. Not Warburton. Not Tipuric. Not Faletau. Not Biggar. Not Priestland. Not Hook. In fact, no Welsh Rugby international has ever borne this surname., which is Welsh, although Anglicized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 21 October , 2015 Share Posted 21 October , 2015 In fact, according to my Rothmans Rugby Yearbook 1974-75, no player with this surname had ever been capped for any of the 8 major nations. I'm not aware of one since. The surname is the same as that of an Anglesey landed family, with a recent link to Royalty and the armed forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 21 October , 2015 Share Posted 21 October , 2015 In fact, according to my Rothmans Rugby Yearbook 1974-75, no player with this surname had ever been capped for any of the 8 major nations. I'm not aware of one since. The surname is the same as that of an Anglesey landed family, with a recent link to Royalty and the armed forces. Ben Meyrick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 21 October , 2015 Share Posted 21 October , 2015 Ben Meyrick? Yes indeed UG. Well done. The Revd. Ben Meyrick. An ordained Baptist Minister at Llanfechell , Anglesey, sentenced to 2 years hard labour at Wormwood Scrubs for refusing to be involved in any military service. Born in 1887, he was already ministering at his chapel in Merthyr whilst still a teenager. In 1916 he enrolled at Coleg y Bala , Bangor, a non conformist theological college. During his second year, in 1917, after the introduction of conscription and before being ordained, he was served with call up papers, which he challenged, and appealed to a military tribunal at Bangor for exemption on concientious grounds. To cut a long story short, the tribunal decided against him. He was then appointed to minister at a baptist chapel at Llanfechell, Anglesey. By late 1917, his appeals had run their course, and he was imprisoned. He was the only minister of religion imprisoned for his conscientious objections in the whole of Wales during the war. (Were there any others in the rest of the British Isles?) Some (many?) suspect they see Lloyd-George's fingerprints all over this case. If he/the Conscription Act could imprison a Welsh Speaking Minister of Religion, a genuine conscientious objector, he/it/they could imprison anybody....... A story that deserves to be more widely known. (Meyrick- owners of the Bodorgan Estate, Anglesey, where Prince William & his wife resided whilst in the RAF Valley. No relation to Ben Meyrick.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 21 October , 2015 Share Posted 21 October , 2015 Some (many?) suspect they see Lloyd-George's fingerprints all over this case. If he/the Conscription Act could imprison a Welsh Speaking Minister of Religion, a genuine conscientious objector, he/it/they could imprison anybody....... A story that deserves to be more widely known. How very interesting. So Ll.G was anxious to stamp on Welsh, specifically Welsh, pacifism? There's a fascinating passage in Donald McCormick's 'The Mask of Merlin' (1963), a "critical study" of Ll.G, about "the extreme nationalist movement in Wales which, shortly before the [second] war, had shown itself violently hostile to the British Government." McCormick's source is 'The German Fifth Column' by the Dutch historian Dr. L Dejong. McCormick: "... there is no evidence of Lloyd George being directly connected with any of the attempts to organise Welsh quislings by the Abwehr ..." A murky tale which, as you say, deserves further investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 21 October , 2015 Share Posted 21 October , 2015 So Ll.G was anxious to stamp on Welsh, specifically Welsh, pacifism? Who knows what Ll-G thought at any time??? Probably to make "All resistance is useless" at the time the Act was coming in. the extreme nationalist movement in Wales which, shortly before the [second] war, had shown itself violently hostile to the British Governmentn. Interesting that you should raise that today, on the 50th anniversary of the drowning of Capel Celyn, to build a reservoir for Liverpool: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-34533405 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capel_Celyn Wales only suffered a few acts of political terrorism/blows for freedom during the 20th Century, and a bomb explosion at Tryweryn in 1963 was one of those. Prior to that, the most famous incident of its kind occurred in 1936 when a group of pacifist nationalists set fire to an RAF Boming School at Penyberth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penyberth The perpetrators then handed themselves in to the local police station . One of them, Lewis Valentine was a contemporary of Ben Meyrick at Bangor. McCormick: "... there is no evidence of Lloyd George being directly connected with any of the attempts to organise Welsh quislings by the Abwehr ...". There was no link between Plaid Cymru, or any mainstream elements of Welsh nationalism and the Germans during WW2. The Germans had a misguided belief that Welsh nationalists were as rabidly anti British as themselves, and if anything, the German desire to find useful Welsh Fifth Columnists merely resulted in them recruiting unbeknowingly, double agents who did them no favours at all. The situation was different in Ireland, and obviously Brittany. I seem to remember that Louis Feutren, an anti-French Breton nationalist accused of collaboration, was squirrelled out of France to Ireland through Wales with the help of a few nationalist sympathisers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 21 October , 2015 Share Posted 21 October , 2015 Dai, absolutely fascinating set of stories, good one. I'm in the greater Merseyside metro area as they might describe it over the pond and I have a glass of water next to my laptop. I'm starting to feel a bit conflicted about it. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 21 October , 2015 Share Posted 21 October , 2015 Dai, absolutely fascinating set of stories, good one. I'm in the greater Merseyside metro area as they might describe it over the pond and I have a glass of water next to my laptop. I'm starting to feel a bit conflicted about it. Pete. Thanks Pete, I see you are an Everton man. My brother has been an Everton man all his life. It takes a special long suffering ascetic sort to follow the Toffees. Any Johnny come lately can support the others the other side of the park, or ManU. TG Jones. Centre Half for Everton in the great side of the 30s of Dean, James et al. Jones after retiring, became manager of Bangor City in the Cheshire League, they won the Welsh Cup in 1962, and qualified for the European Cup Winners' Cup. What an achievement! I'll leave you to read the rest: http://www.the-citizens-choice.co.uk/Europe.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 22 October , 2015 Share Posted 22 October , 2015 Good one Dai, and cheers by the way; my drinking water also comes from Wales, and I believe it's the best in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 22 October , 2015 Share Posted 22 October , 2015 There seems to be a theme developing. Who's this then ? ? ? Clue - not Welsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 22 October , 2015 Share Posted 22 October , 2015 There seems to be a theme developing. Who's this then ? ? ? Clue - not Welsh. Good. Well that narrows it down a bit doesn't it? Should be able to work it out now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 22 October , 2015 Share Posted 22 October , 2015 Good. Well that narrows it down a bit doesn't it? Should be able to work it out now. Well, you know that the recent developing theme is other than 'Welsh'. That must narrow things down a little! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 22 October , 2015 Share Posted 22 October , 2015 Any Johnny come lately can support the others the other side of the park, or ManU. Thanks Dai, cracking word ascetic but not always apt; there is very little self control amongst the faithful when they aren't happy with what they see. I like to think I take the long view. As for the immortal T G he is venerated amongst the club's historians, especially by me as he was my father's all time hero, and he saw Bill Dean score his 58th, 59th and 60th goals. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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