Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 Fascinating. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 Not Robert Winthrop. (I'm sorry but I'm not sure who he is, or which group he was associated?) Let's make him the next WIT, then! He served in the war and reached the rank of sergeant in the RFA. Winthrop is an anglicized version of his family name, but he was better known under a different name entirely. He was not Welsh. The group he was associated with was not a football team (of any code). It had six members, but one was substituted later. He could often be seen at the Palace. I don't have a photo of him, but he did look a bit like Fred Keenor. (UG and NF: please hold back on this one for 48 hours!) Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 OK, thanks Ron. Let's start thinking. Six in a team????? Volleyball???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 # 3305: Bud Flanagan, born Chaim Reuben Weintrop, served in the RFA and was a member of the Crazy Gang. JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 Looks like Sigmund Freud. But it's not him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 Looks like Sigmund Freud. But it's not him. I've deleted him Dai. On reflection, a rubbish post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 That's a shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 We can file this chap under the general heading 'Scandal'. And mystery. Who is he ? ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 .....and an interesting hat! face isn't familiar. British? Is he , or rather was he a politician? That's the profession we nowadays associate instinctively when the word "Scandal" is mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 .....and an interesting hat! face isn't familiar. British? Is he , or rather was he a politician? That's the profession we nowadays associate instinctively when the word "Scandal" is mentioned. British - yes (but served in the army of another country). Politician - yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 Scandal involving a lady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 Scandal involving a lady? Scandal could be said to have swirled around him, in its differing guises. Not involving a lady - more financial jiggery-pokery. And influence. And then he disappeared off the face of the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 # 3305: Bud Flanagan, born Chaim Reuben Weintrop, served in the RFA and was a member of the Crazy Gang. JP Correct, JP. Well done!Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 5 November , 2015 Share Posted 5 November , 2015 - more financial jiggery-pokery. And influence. And then he disappeared off the face of the earth. Intriguing. I will sleep on this one, and research more tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 6 November , 2015 Share Posted 6 November , 2015 We can file this chap under the general heading 'Scandal'. And mystery. Who is he ? ? ?Victor Grayson. An MP, who served in the New Zealand Army according to Wiki, and who disappeared in 1920.I found him through the Wiki entry on another scandal-tainted MP, Maundy Gregory. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 6 November , 2015 Share Posted 6 November , 2015 Yes indeed - Victor Grayson. A murky tale: http://spartacus-educational.com/TUgrayson.htm Covered in a Forum thread here: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6352 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 6 November , 2015 Share Posted 6 November , 2015 Victor Grayson, Maundy Gregory, Horatio Bottomley ... they remind you that dubious conduct by MPs, especially of a financial nature, is not a new issue! This quote, in the Spartacus article, also caught my eye: Fred Jowett, one of the leaders of the Independent Labour Party, commented: "We must recognise that the man who can make a crowd shout is not necessarily an organizer of men. The gift of platform oratory, skill in making striking phrases, is a dangerous one. It is the man behind that matters. If his skill is employed in setting, not class against class, but men of the same class against their kith and kin, sewing seeds of distrust and hatred where the love of a common cause should produce the fellowship of kindred spirits, it were better if he had no such skill." I immediately thought of Hitler. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 6 November , 2015 Share Posted 6 November , 2015 Hmm. Typical. I go to bed, and when I wake up, someone's sneaked in to solve it! Never come across him. Dodgy. Very dodgy business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 10 November , 2015 Share Posted 10 November , 2015 Continuing with the loose theme of mystery and intrigue, plenty of both surrounded this fellow. However, he was no cad, it would seem. All he ever wanted was peace. Artistically talented, he co-wrote a libretto for a very well known opera. Best known for writing other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 11 November , 2015 Share Posted 11 November , 2015 Born in France. German father. Anglo Irish mother. Intrigue involves Kaiser Bill the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 11 November , 2015 Share Posted 11 November , 2015 This is a toughie, right out of the "Extremely Tough" drawer of your "Very Hard" filing cabinet. When I saw the clue, I thought (wrongly) Erik Satie. But he wasn't a librettist. His father wasn't German. His mother was Scottish. Too old. And it doesn't look anything like him. Apart from that, that's the best guess so far......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 11 November , 2015 Share Posted 11 November , 2015 Good effort nevertheless. My man wasn't a composer, but given his skills as a one off librettist, he was involved in opera and theatre, making some innovative contributions to both. He also wrote books, and left us a set of diaries, which have been converted into other formats by other people. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverforget Posted 12 November , 2015 Share Posted 12 November , 2015 Blimey! you`re making me work hard with this one. In 1919 he wrote a "plan for a League of Nations". He was a Count, German diplomat, and patron of the arts, and his sibling was related by God to the aforementioned Kaiser. Hence the scandal. Developed activities aimed at peace plans with France and England. The opera that he co-wrote the libretto for is a well known German offering, still currently doing the rounds, and premiered within the five years preceding WW1. Up until it`s premiere, it`s working title referred to an ox, after one of the leading characters within it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 12 November , 2015 Share Posted 12 November , 2015 Blimey! you`re making me work hard with this one. It's not easy from this side of the fence , believe me! Right. Let's see........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 12 November , 2015 Share Posted 12 November , 2015 Right then. Harry Clemens Ulrich Graf Kessler. Co-librettist of Der Rosenkavalier no less. I didn't know that before. And his mother a horizontal collaborator (allegedly) of the Kaiser. Nice one..... but tough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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